From a distance it seem like the country has enough people that want to return to a corrupt way of governing that is may be impossible to deliver the government to the people of Iraq.
The recent spade of car bombings speaks volumes.
At the end of the day, if the people of Iraq do not openly stand against those that would run the country gangland style, no nation, including America, can ' free' them.
From the beginning, I have had questions about how things would turn out when dealing with people that so openly accept corruption and graft as a way of life.
Add terrorist style warfare to the mix and you' ve got yourself a perfect paradox:
What the heck, we are still in Germany and ***an and it took years to set up governments in bot of those countries. I certainly wouldn' t call either of them a problem.
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Obamanfreude - 1. taking pleasure from the misfortunes of an Obama supporter as he or she is adversely affected by the policies of their Dear Leader.
My personal belief has not changed. Iraq was and to a degree is still a threat to our safety as a nation. So are other mideastern countries and they are watching how we carry this burden.
We entered into this war effort with the knowledge that it was not going to be some over night world changing event. It isn' t and those with a clear understanding of the past, future and current cultures realize it will taken a long time to achieve a stable form of government in these cultures.
Unfortunately we are a culture of 30 minutes sitcoms, one hour specials, fast food, high speed travel, money machines, loose credit and all manner of instant gratification. If we want something that is difficult or hard to obtian we get the Blue pill to fix it.
Well there is no Blue pill to fix this problem. We are and must stay steadfast in our RESOLVE to defeat terrorism, corruption of the world by these zealots or gangster at all cost. The alternative is not acceptable. I don' t want see my sons nor granddaughter livng as if they are in Isreal.
Keep the War in the middle east as long as it takes to eliminate or minimize the threat.
Good men and women have gone before and died for this country and unfortunately more will in the future. It is not a pleasant thing but it is necessary.
This is not for oil nor for votes. It is for our security at home.
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Now you have to picture a combination of PeeWEE Herman and Wally Cox but with less muscle tone, trying to be intimidating None of this is funny! Message edited by Cougar Mag -- 1/7/2005 1:16:42 AM >/b]
If we want something that is difficult or hard to obtian we get the Blue pill to fix it. You talking about Viagra?
That' s exactly what I was thinking when I read Logs' post.
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Obamanfreude - 1. taking pleasure from the misfortunes of an Obama supporter as he or she is adversely affected by the policies of their Dear Leader.
Charlie P and Briman, that' s the idea. Some people need it because they have a really problem and others take it just for the quick fix, the easy way to do it, let' s see what' s it like. Not lose 50 pounds and get in shape so you can make it work on your own. It' s the additude.
Now I don' t think that VC intented to critize our Forces being there, just that it' s a Damned if you do and a Damned if you don' t situation. I' d rather do and be Damned to the rest of them who don' t like what we do.
My point is that a large number of our citizens don' t have the grit to tow the line. Some are always looking for the Blue pill to make them happy. Maybe if we could stick some Viagra up their butts, they' d spring a back bone for however long it will last and they could stand up to see a task to it' s correct end,
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Now you have to picture a combination of PeeWEE Herman and Wally Cox but with less muscle tone, trying to be intimidating None of this is funny! Message edited by Cougar Mag -- 1/7/2005 1:16:42 AM >/b]
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,186
RE: In the end...
All I can say is that one car bomb speaks louder than a thousand voices. Millions of voices might be saying that it is a great thing we are doing, where it only takes one person from another country to strap a bomb to their chest and blow up a group of people to over shadow the millions. I dont think we get all the news, primarily bad. Good news doesnt sell papers or air time.
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
In the middle east it is known as Baksheesh (my phoenetic spelling) the Chinese call it " Fragrant Grease" we call it graft or bribery. In most of the world it is a way of life. I' m not saying it is right, wrong or indifferent it' s just the way things are. It cost me 50 Syrian pounds to get out of that rats nest one time but that' s another story.
To expect the people of one of these countries to embrace Democracy, essentially overnight, is ridiculous. To expect them to accept Democracy in a generation is nearly as ridiculous.
It took 56 men of good will, devoted to a single cause four years to come up with the U.S. Constitution. We are expecting men of a hundred different tribes representing two major factions of a common religion plus a dozen splinter factions
to write a constitution and elect a government in a matter of months. Now you tell me. Who is crazy?
In the middle east it is known as Baksheesh (my phoenetic spelling) the Chinese call it " Fragrant Grease" we call it graft or bribery.
That is part of what I' m trying to say. Not long ago, we began the process of setting up police " departments." We placed Iraqis in charge of doing some of their own hiring and firing. There was a riot. They were selling the jobs to the highest bidder.
These people are used to graft. How can they " vote?" Will you have to pay someone to vote? I have no faith in these people. None at all. I think they will sell out their own neighbors for the right price. As I said, add the element of terrorism to a people that are already hardened to graft and corruption, and it will be more than a long hard road.
My views have not changed either. I think we are on the right path. What I' m not so sure of is if these people want for themselves what we want for them.
The terrorists and the insurgents have to be supported from within. It will be difficult to advance until that support is cut off. The news confirms that.
The biggest problem with doing the right thing is that it is rarely easy. If it is worthwhile, as this venture surely is at least in my mind, then it is worth doing right. I hope President Bush has the intestinal fortitude required to stay the course in this particular endeavor. I believe he does, I hope I am right.
This is, overall, not about Iraq or Afghanistan but about terrorism. Done properly this venture is going to last for decades and encompass not two middle eastern nations but the entire globe. The far east has more militant muslims than the rest of them combined, they just haven' t started their Jihaad here yet. It may be a bit easier to pick out those from the far east than those from the middle east (I hope).
My biggest fear is that down the road a few years our national resolve will dissipate under some gutless wonder and all will be in vain. I pray that we, as a nation, can sustain this effort through the years to come until all of us here and in other nations may again live in peace.
In the end...
