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Old 10-13-2003, 02:39 PM   #1
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=452375

US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops
Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers, while British are condemned as too soft
By Patrick Cockburn in Dhuluaya
12 October 2003


US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.

The stumps of palm trees, some 70 years old, protrude from the brown earth scoured by the bulldozers beside the road at Dhuluaya, a small town 50 miles north of Baghdad. Local women were yesterday busily bundling together the branches of the uprooted orange and lemon trees and carrying then back to their homes for firewood.

Nusayef Jassim, one of 32 farmers who saw their fruit trees destroyed, said: " They told us that the resistance fighters hide in our farms, but this is not true. They didn' t capture anything. They didn' t find any weapons."

Other farmers said that US troops had told them, over a loudspeaker in Arabic, that the fruit groves were being bulldozed to punish the farmers for not informing on the resistance which is very active in this Sunni Muslim district.

" They made a sort of joke against us by playing jazz music while they were cutting down the trees," said one man. Ambushes of US troops have taken place around Dhuluaya. But Sheikh Hussein Ali Saleh al-Jabouri, a member of a delegation that went to the nearby US base to ask for compensation for the loss of the fruit trees, said American officers described what had happened as " a punishment of local people because ' you know who is in the resistance and do not tell us' ." What the Israelis had done by way of collective punishment of Palestinians was now happening in Iraq, Sheikh Hussein added.

The destruction of the fruit trees took place in the second half of last month but, like much which happens in rural Iraq, word of what occurred has only slowly filtered out. The destruction of crops took place along a kilometre-long stretch of road just after it passes over a bridge.

Farmers say that 50 families lost their livelihoods, but a petition addressed to the coalition forces in Dhuluaya pleading in erratic English for compensation, lists only 32 people. The petition says: " Tens of poor families depend completely on earning their life on these orchards and now they became very poor and have nothing and waiting for hunger and death."

The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation. When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it. The same paper quotes Lt Col Springman, a US commander in the region, as saying: " We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn' t tell us."

Informing US troops about the identity of their attackers would be extremely dangerous in Iraqi villages, where most people are related and everyone knows each other. The farmers who lost their fruit trees all belong to the Khazraji tribe and are unlikely to give information about fellow tribesmen if they are, in fact, attacking US troops.

Asked how much his lost orchard was worth, Nusayef Jassim said in a distraught voice: " It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:40 PM   #2
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

Does anyone think that is happening, or maybe it' s false?

I hope that this isn' t going on
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Old 10-13-2003, 02:59 PM   #3
 
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Old 10-13-2003, 11:19 PM   #4
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

There is a lot of propaganda going on, including from our own media. I would prefer to give our troops the benefit of the doubt until they' re proven guilty instead of automatically believing what some Iraqi says when so many Iraqis do have reasons to lie.
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:25 AM   #5
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

I agree cal.

It maybe nothing more then them clearing out hiding places by the highways they have to patrol& eliminating ambush sites , clearing fields of fire etc.

But they really dont know who the next enemy is do they, it could be the farmer or his brothers, sons who knows - just about anybody.

And i will give them the benifit of the doubt OUR troops,

Doing a tuff job just trying to stay alive i think sometimes , while( trying) wining the hearts & minds( and a target for every nut case in the middle east) and with a lot of American green backs & smiles & public relations bs.

Those crazy a rabs cant even get along with ppl of there own kind , region, relgion or tribe.

Splintered/fragmentedwackos like someone with 100 personalities.


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Old 10-14-2003, 04:37 AM   #6
 
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

What????no agent orange?? No nape and grape??? No Puff the Magic Dragon softening things up a bit first?? JAZZ Music??? What is our military coming to??
Especially that Jazz Music bit, it must have taken an order from Rummy himself to get our troops to play that while bulldozing!! Next thing you know they will be showing XXX movies on the side of local mosque at sunset prayer to torture these poor souls.

Do I think our military could Bulldoze an orchard or three? If it made the area safer you better believe it. Would they do it for s&*ts and grins? I doubt it.

I still can' t get over the Jazz Music though.
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:51 AM   #7
 
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

Quote:
It maybe nothing more then them clearing out hiding places by the highways they have to patrol& eliminating ambush sites , clearing fields of fire etc.
That' s exactly what I make of this. These areas have probably been used as ambush sights and the military has probably given the farmers a choice. Either tell us who they are so we can round them up, or the ambush sites have to go.

War ain' t exactly a walk in the park.
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Old 10-14-2003, 12:18 PM   #8
 
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

I' m not saying I think this is happening or not. Maybe it is, but for security reasons. I doubt it' s just for fun. Either way, if it is happening, it is a bad, bad thing. Safety is of utmost importance, but this is why so many villages turned to helping the Vietnamese Communists. They were tired of us destroying their food supplies and crops. We were tired of not knowing where the enemy was. It' s scary. I' m beginning to see more and more simalarities between Vietnam' s and Iraq' s guerilla tactics.

Let' s hope it' s British leftist propaganda.
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Old 10-15-2003, 07:49 AM   #9
 
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

Brutal Punishment tactics???

As opposed to Rape rooms, Poison gas, killing whole families and extended families because one family member expressed dissent? Like say....a former DICTATOR in the region?

I have a feeling that this is a non-story.

Also. A one kilometer stretch on one side of a road with a mechanical force moving down it is really not much damage in the big scheme of things...In fact, I would venture a guess that if this is even true, the troops were likely avoiding the road due to suspected mines.
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Old 10-15-2003, 08:02 AM   #10
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Default RE: Americans accused of brutal ' punishment' tactics against villagers

Quote:
We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn' t tell us."
Or were going to have to bulldoze the area' s they are attacking us from. Seems to fit in there doesn' t it.
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