logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Politics

Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2012, 08:46 PM   #1
Boone & Crockett
 
Fieldmouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 17,824
Default Economic chaos ahead [CI, your kids won't notice it one bit)

A MINORITY VIEW
BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2012
*
Economic Chaos Ahead
*
*********** Let’s think about the kind of mess that we’re in. Federal 2010 Medicare and Medicaid expenditures totaled $800 billion. The projected annual growth of both programs is about 7 percent. Social Security expenditures are more than $700 billion a year. According to the 2009 Social Security and Medicare trustees reports, by 2030, 49 percent of federal revenues will go for Social Security and Medicare payments. The unfunded liability of both programs is already $106 trillion.
*********** But not to worry. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it’s possible to sustain today’s level of federal spending and even achieve a balanced budget. All that Congress would have to do is raise the lowest income tax bracket of 10 percent to 25 percent and the middle tax bracket of 25 percent to 66 percent and raise the 35 percent tax bracket to 92 percent. That’s a static vision that assumes that people will have no response and they’ll work just as hard and send more money to Washington. If Congress did legislate such tax increases, it would be the economic equivalent of committing national hara-kiri.
*********** Professor Daniel Klein, editor of Econ Journal Watch, and Professor Tyler Cowen, general director of the Mercatus Center, both based at George Mason University, organized a symposium to promote a better understanding of the U.S. debt crisis. The symposium’s title, “U.S. Sovereign Debt Crisis: Tipping-Point Scenarios and Crash Dynamics” (http://econjwatch.org), is a strong hint about the seriousness of our nation’s plight.
*********** Professor Cowen introduced the symposium pointing out that in 2011, the major crisis was in the eurozone, where Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland dealt with the risk of default. The survival of the eurozone is now seriously doubted. Cowen added: “When it comes to a sovereign debt crisis, it is no longer possible to say ‘it can’t happen here.’ Right now, we are borrowing about 40 cents of every dollar the federal government spends, and the imbalance has no end in sight.”
*********** Jeffrey Rogers Hummel, associate professor of economics at San Jose State University, says that a default on Treasury securities appears inevitable. He says that the short-run consequences for the economy will be painful but that the long-run consequences, both political and economic, could be beneficial. That’s because an economic collapse is the only way we will come to our senses. That’s a tragic statement about the foresight of the American people.
*********** Participant Garrett Jones, associate professor of economics at George Mason University, is a bit more optimistic, seeing default as being less likely. But he argues that “default is still possible, and the GOP offers a uniquely American path to default: an unwillingness to raise taxes.”
*********** Dr. Arnold Kling is a member of the Financial Market Working Group at the Mercatus Center and tells us that the “U.S. government has made a set of promises that it cannot keep.” He says that the “promises that are most important to change are Social Security and Medicare.”
*********** Joseph J. Minarik is senior vice president and director of research at the Committee for Economic Development. He argues that a “U.S. financial meltdown today is eminently avoidable. The wealthiest nation on earth, despite a painful economic slowdown, maintains the wherewithal to pay its bills. The open question is whether it maintains the will and the wisdom.”
*********** Peter J. Wallison holds the Arthur F. Burns chair in financial policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. He agrees with Kling that “the most likely source of a U.S. sovereign debt crisis ... is a failure of the U.S. political system to address the growth of the major entitlement programs -- Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.”
*********** My translation of the symposium’s conclusions is that it is by no means preordained that our nation must suffer the same decline as have other great nations of the past -- England, France, Spain, Portugal and the Ottoman and Roman empires. All evidence suggests that we will suffer a similar decline because, as Professor Cowen says, “the American electorate has dug in against both major tax increases and major spending cuts.”
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”

Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'

"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
Fieldmouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 07:54 AM   #2
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 142
Default

If you don't get the old people off of WELFARE our country will go broke.

Plain and simple. The money goes to WELFARE for the old and Defense. The other wastes do get money, but welfare and foodstamps are nothing compared to the elderly and defense.
NeverWill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:02 AM   #3
Boone & Crockett
 
The Rev's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Burleson Texas
Posts: 11,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverWill View Post
If you don't get the old people off of WELFARE our country will go broke.

Plain and simple. The money goes to WELFARE for the old and Defense. The other wastes do get money, but welfare and foodstamps are nothing compared to the elderly and defense.
Where are you and the rest of the Liberals going to plant that money tree! What part of Obama has bankrupted this country do YOU not understand?.... You prove with every post that liberals just don't have a freaking clue!
__________________
My knife website
www.knivesbyjank.com
The Rev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:13 AM   #4
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 142
Default

The BUSH Tax cuts prove who knows what to do when times are good.

Increase spending and give away the store.

The country may never recover from those 2 moves.

Reckless!!!!

Last edited by NeverWill; 02-09-2012 at 08:19 AM.
NeverWill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:21 AM   #5
Boone & Crockett
 
The Rev's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Burleson Texas
Posts: 11,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverWill View Post
The BUSH Tax cuts prove who knows what to do when times are good.

Reckless!!!!
So you are blaming business for what Obama did? Let's blame Linclon too, he was a Republican.
__________________
My knife website
www.knivesbyjank.com
The Rev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:26 AM   #6
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 142
Default

I am blaming a majority of the recent rise in defecit on the reduction in revenues which are due to the Bush Tax Cuts along with Unemployment causing lower revenues.
NeverWill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #7
Boone & Crockett
 
Fieldmouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 17,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverWill View Post
I am blaming a majority of the recent rise in defecit on the reduction in revenues which are due to the Bush Tax Cuts along with Unemployment causing lower revenues.
How come the records for both revenue and employment occurred in the Bush years and under a republican congress. Why did the decline occurr, after the Dems took control on congress?
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”

Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'

"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
Fieldmouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 11:08 AM   #8
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,726
Default

With no particular figures to support my thoughts -- and no fondness in my heart for Obama and/or the Democrats -- it ought to be considered that the rising costs of SS payments and Medicare payments (referred to as Welfare payments for the elderly by one who posted on this thread) are rising exponentially.

When I use the term "exponentially" I don't mean it in the fuzzy sense of fast or big. I mean in the mathematical sense, a quantity doubling every X period of time. Put one grain of rice on the first square of a checkerboard, put two grains of rice on the second square of the checkerboard, put four grains of rice on the third square of the checkerboard, put eight grains of rice on the fourth square of the checkerboard, put sixteen grains of rice on the fifth square of the checkerboard. That is exponential growth. Anyone care to calculate how many grains of rice will be placed on the 64th square of the checkerboard? 2^63. It's a big number. 2 billion billions.

We have never reached a steadystate in these programs, so we don't really know what they cost when you roll the system forward into a stable state. Why not? The parameters of the system are changing. What parameters? The number of years that people live after retirement age is changing, and not in an insignificant way. Used to be you would retire on social security at 65 and die at 70. How do the numbers work out when you retire at 65 and are still living at 88 and drawing social security, as is my mother-in-law. My father lived to 84. My father in law lived to 89. The demographics are changing. It used to be that the number of people who were over 65 versus the number of people working in the adult workforce had a given ratio. That ratio has changed, not just because of the extended life span but also because of the fewer numbers of children people are giving birth to now.

So, blame Obama and the Democrats for this if you want to, but while I look forward to they day they leave Washington, that is not going to solve the problem. We are going to have to face up to these entitlement programs and take some bitter medicine.

Either we will have to pay more taxes to maintain these programs and remain solvent or we will have to reduce the pay outs of these systems. No one wants to do either of these things. Voila a soaring deficit. I don't think it is a Democrat or a Republican issue. I decry the silly stimulus spending, but that is not a long term issue. I decry our spending like drunken sailors on military stuff (see George Will's article of today -- he says it much more articulately than I could and his conservative credentials are gold plated in my view). But these are not the long term danger. Exponentially increased entitlement costs are the problem. No one in our government is dealing with this issue. It is the elephant in the room. Move over Greece, here we come.

Also, given the exponential increase in entitlement costs I pointed out above, it is unclear to me that raising taxes is in fact a solution to this. It may be that the only way out is to significantly reduce the entitlement values meted out. Here is one way to think about it. To a first order of analysis -- a crude order, admittedly -- the only way the system is sustainable is for each of us to ourselves, without external support, pay for the feeding, clothing, and medical care of our own parents out of our own pockets. I've got three sisters; my wife has one sister. Basically we would have to look at it from the perspective that in reality we have to support our parents on our own in their old age. The abstraction of a social security program and a medicare program is just that, an abstraction. I don't buy that we can tax Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Steve Job's estate, and other rich dudes enough to substantially relieve that burden. So, the question becomes, how much can we ourselves pay out of our own pockets for dear mom and dad while at the same time paying our own way in the world, sending the kids to college, sending the kids to high school? How much can we pay for dear mom and dad's medical care, increasingly expensive and continuous as they get older? If we think that these expensese are somehow averaged out and lost in the vast sea of the government treasury, we are falling into the same delusion we accuse others of having. No, it is coming more or less directly out of our pockets. What can we sustain? Not the present levels, I dare say. I don't like this, but this is the conclusion my limited powers of analysis lead me to. What say you?

Last edited by Alsatian; 02-09-2012 at 11:18 AM.
Alsatian is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:58 AM.