It's very hard to determine who's right here, not being an economist.
On one hand, you have conservative pundits and Tea Party supporters who want Boehner to 'stick to his guns' and 'make no compromise'. THey say raising the debt limit is a bad thing, but more importantly, they are saying we don't NEED to raise the debt ceiling...we can still pay our bills once the legal debt limit is reached, which will lead to the mandatory re-evaluation of discretionary spending on money we won't have after the bills are paid.
On the other hand, you have the socialists (I will call them democrats no longer....but I digress) who are predicting gloom and doom. Military families won't get their paychecks....Medicare and Medicaid will provide no services, Social Security won't be able to send out checks to seniors.
Who to believe ?
Standard and Poor's states there is a 50/50 chance that our AAA bond rating can be cut if the debt ceiling is not raised. Others warn of a 900-point plunge in the stock market as speculators sell off everything they have in an effort to get out.
Who to believe ? How can 1 event be perceived so completely differently, depending upon whether you are an American conservative or a socialist ?
To me, It's gotten to the point that I don't care to hear any more either side. The debt is so high they just have to quit borrowing more and more - DUH!!!!!. So I'd be OK if the current debt limit stayed in place and they balance the budget.
The short answer is it doesn't matter - either raising or not will both lead to the destruction of the United States and we know it. And BTW - the republicans are no better than the democrats.
Keep in mind the two parties philosphy. First, the Democrats like to TAX and SPEND. The republicans "BORROW and SPEND". Both have got us to this point.
Thier arguments show the world how weak we are. It is likely the US will lose its AAA+ credit rating either way. Although the US has been lieing about its economic numbers for years (to show we came out of recession) - we have been in a double dip recession for about the last 12 months and its is intensifying. I doubt their decision to raiseor not, will change anything about the bad times coming.
They are posturing for re-election and both parties are too overwhelmingly stupid to understand the ramifications of their decisions or Treasonous acts!
Really, both parties are the same? Serious? You see no difference? Let me guess, you're an independent who follows the chow line on election day.
I'm all for no debt ceiling to be raised. The Republicans have done their job. The republicans have put forth a budget many months ago. The Senate has gone 2 years without producing a budget in order to hide all this massive spending they have done. The house has put Cut, Cap and Balance squarely on the table of the Senate and the majority of Americans support it. Harry Reid is voting to table it in order to keep his own party from voting on it. Remember, 20 members of Reid's own party ran on passing a balance budget amendment.
Let's look at history. Ronald Reagan was pushing a balance budget amendment. The Republican Senate actually passed a balance budget amendment and the house Dems killed it. The republicans are holding all the cards. Do nothing and we have a balance budget amendment.
Our worry now is the president assuming a dictatorship and assuming power he doesn't have. president Clinton and members of the Senate are telling the President to ignore congress and borrow anyway. If this occurs, it would truly trash the constitution and I would hope the house would proceed to impeachment proceedings instead of going to the courts.
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
So it's 2 nays....mine makes three...and one 'it don't matter'.
I think it does matter, especially if we're trashed either way. Can't pay down the debt
if we don't stop the spending...so say NO to the debt ceiling being raised. For me, anyway.
Gonna be a lot of people working into their 70's and 80's in the coming years....
I prefer that the debt ceiling NOT be raised without a solid, substantive spending reduction NOW. No substantial spending cut, no debt ceiling increase.
Ask yourself what is the rationale for having a debt ceiling? It is equivalent to my throwing my car keys up on the roof before I start drinking from a large bottle of tequila: this prevents me from driving while drunk and judgment impaired after I have swilled too much tequila. I don't actually do that, but it seems an apt analogy. the rationale is to PREVENT overspending. If we are hitting the debt ceiling, doesn't that imply we have overspent? Shouldn't we respond to hitting this debt ceiling by reigning in spending?
The problem is NOT that we are not taxed enough, it is that we are spending too much. For a long time -- 40 years -- federal spending has averaged pretty close to 19% of GDP. Since 2008 that has sky rocketed to 25% Skyrocketed? Increasing from 19% to 25% is only 6% different. Skyrocketed? Really?!!! Yes, do the analysis based on relative growth of spending: 25%/19% is a 32% increase. That, dear reader, is a spending problem not a tax problem.
What happens if we don't raise the debt ceiling? We won't spend more than we bring in as revenue. OH!!!!! We have to live within our means! We will have to choose between multiple goods and prioritize our spending to what is MOST valuable!!! Goodness gracious! What an awful pass we have come to! We will pay our bills on a prioritized basis. We won't default on our sovereign debt. We won't stop sending out social security payments or pay checks to military personnel. Yes, some bills won't be paid. Maybe this is payments to defense contractors, maybe they'll have to wait for the multi-billion dollar checks to be deposited in their bank accounts. I feel their pain. Maybe some federal workers will get 80% of their normal pay and have to wait. Again, when you spend too much, something has to give. Not every appetite can be satisfied.
And let's remember. Ultimately, the proposal is to raise the debt ceiling in exchange for real spending cuts. Thus, the payments to defense contractors and federal employees paid 80% of full salary will ultimately get their money, but delayed somewhat. Maybe only a week. Maybe only a month. Only as long as it takes the Democrats to see the House or Representatives is not in as weak a position as is generally thought.
Without an agreement by the House, the Senate, and the President, the status quo prevails. The status quo is no more deficit spending. I don't see that as a bad thing. I think the Republican controlled house holds a lot of trump cards given this properly perceived status quo. Obama wants to grand stand and push fear mongering? Let him do it. We'll see what happens after August 4. If the sky does not fall -- as it most certainly will not -- that removes a whole lot of his credibility immediately. Additionally, people start seeing things differently and they see, hey, we can live on less than 150% of our revenues!
At least that is how I see it. Raising taxes is not the answer. Closeing tax loop holes (one person's tax loop hole is another person's cost of doing business deduction, I would like to point out) is not the answer. The magnitude of the deficit spending beggars closing tax loop holes, and the increase in taxes needed likewise would be such as to really put the skids on economic growth.
The answer is simple. Spend less. How do you spend less? C'mon people. You prioritize your money among your things that you do. If you over promised, you have to revise your promises and offer apologies. It is happening in a lot of other countries, why not here too. In France they have raised the minimum retirement age. Seems like Germany did this too. We likely will need to alter and modify our promises in terms of social security and medicare and medicaid. Is everyone going to like that? No. But this is the reality. This is what our congress is elected to do, to make tough decisions and manage our governmental affairs like responsible, intelligent, judicious adults.
Further to my thought above. With reference to taxes: contitutionally tax measures must originate in the House of Representatives. That sounds like a pretty strong point in favor of the Republicans's position. No new taxes, and the Republicans have a decisive majority in the House to prevent this. Should they trust Democrats with any spending cut promises in exchange for higher taxes? No. Why not? Because Republicans have been down this road before and gotten snookered by Democrats. Additionally, everytime more revenue comes in, spending just increases to consume that revenue.
You guys completely miss the gate here repeditively - I'm pooped - have given tons of links and facts and details on previous posts and you either don't read it or just plain can't beleive its that bad. You only understand "honest" numbers and "honest" accounting and that is NOT what has been happening for the last century in this country.
Too bad too - and I said the two parties are part of the same problem - they are identical EXCEPT that the Democrats Tax and Spend and the Republicans Borrow and Spend. Their programs are all socialist in nature - the repub's with their patriot act and their redundant enforcment agencies of the tsa and homeland sec.
I'll bet if you keyword that into google you'll find lots of what I'm talking about.
I hope its not raised too - it won't matter - either way it doesn't fix anything... but I'm also positioned for a raise in the debt ceiling.
You guys are so funny, so hopefull that this country can fix its finances when in fact they can't be fixed. Its simply a timebomb. So hopefull your ballot will result in a new outcome. Funny - do you understand what happens to the debt when interest rates go up (yea default); do you understand what happens when they stay down (they borrow even more creating hyperinflation). These are NOT 80's numbers - these are 100's of Trillions of dollars. Financial devastation can occur overnight.
Remember - insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
And BTW I'm actually a registered republican - I hate the F'ing republicans (and democrats) both their policies got us here - it just so happens there is one republican that gets it and I'll vote for him knowing he'll never make it past the primary's and (assuming I'm right) this year, for the first time in decades - I doubt I'll vote in the regular election. Why waste the time? I'd rather be in a tree Nov 4th anyway - even if I see nothing - it will have been more worthwhile...
I'm opposed to any increase in the debt limit. What's the point of establishing a debt limit if you're just going to raise it every time you get close?
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I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.
Debt Limit - yea or nay ?
