The Green Thing!!!

[Lunkerdog]

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."
The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.
We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.
We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?
Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smartass young person.

[Fieldmouse]

Thanks for sharing. I sent that along to one of my favorite uncles.

[RobertSubnet]

Well lets see now:

~Regular gas (not unleaded) put out a lot more polution than todays cars
~Coal plants did not have scrubbers, so a lot more polution from them
~It took a concerted effort to teach people to "give a hoot don't pollute"

and so on. I'm no tree hugger but previous generations weren't perfect either. Just that back then people did not have a self-righteous weed up their @$$es when it came to the environment.

[Alsatian]

Originally Posted by RobertSubnet

Well lets see now:

~Regular gas (not unleaded) put out a lot more polution than todays cars
~Coal plants did not have scrubbers, so a lot more polution from them
~It took a concerted effort to teach people to "give a hoot don't pollute"

and so on. I'm no tree hugger but previous generations weren't perfect either. Just that back then people did not have a self-righteous weed up their @$$es when it came to the environment.

Indeed. I think the purpose of the long passage is to poke some fun at the zealotry of current greenies.

There have been many environment friendly battles that were fought and won in the past. Indeed, there were bad poisons that were being introduced into the environment. DDT was a very common herbicide -- regrettably it had some bad effects. One bad effect was that it dramatically impacted birds. I think egg shells became very thin and fragile leading to an exceptionally high incidence of failed bird births. Asbestos siding. Lead paint. Lake Erie once caught on fire there was so much crap floating on top of it. PCBs were once very common -- for example in pole mounted electrical transformers. Frankly, I strongly support protecting the environment. I just want this to be handled in a scientific way rather than based on hyperbole and scare tactics. Also, I think the risk ought to be balanced against the costs. I suppose my tap water is not 100% free of bad stuff -- radio isotopes, mercury, cadmium, etc. -- but it is pure enough to drink without substantive health problems. How much would it cost to REALLY make the water pure? $100/gallon? So, you get my point about risk balanced against cost. And in the past there were risks involved in drinking water also, so the idea of zero health risk drinking water is not on par with the past before industrialization.

[Knightia]

Good post LD

Green is big business these days, & borders on a new age all consuming religion for some & there are some who think it was something invented in the 60,s i think.



Water = life.

In the good ol ol days...( the mates grandma would be nice& buy her shoes( as a speical treet- would have her feet x rayed first( for free)

Use ta be rivers of human waste & dead & garbage flowing threw the great cosmopolitan pillers of mankinds streets & waterways...(but i think there where rumors of a land of milk & honey & streets paved with gold to.



From what i understand DDT was a very effective product & millions have died worldwide because its not used.

Those ddt bird mortalitys( or lack of bird births?) ever proven?


Dont know that lake erie caught fire- not that i know of anyways-( ussally its a river fire(1969) near cleveland that ppl give credit to( as a spur to the clean water act etc etc.


But no doubt it( lake erie) is & was polluted( have eatin a lot of fish from it in the past & drank the water in the past to, swam in it a bit as a kid growing up etc)- ( never swam in love canal- but did the erie canal etc.)( no doubt ingested a lot of lead & other things ppl shouldnt to.







One take on the fire.

http://www.perc.org/articles/article364.php
A River Ablaze



[ Full text in PDF ]
Cuyahoga Revisited

By Stacie Thomas
Early in the summer of 1969, the Cuyahoga River caught fire. Piles of logs, picnic benches, and other debris had collected below a railroad trestle, which impeded their movement down the river. These piles only lacked a spark to set them afire. A passing train with a broken wheel bearing probably provided that spark, igniting the debris which, in turn, lighted the kerosene-laden oil floating on top of the river.

The fire burned only 24 minutes-too short a time for the Cleveland Plain Dealer to catch a photo-and at first it attracted little attention. However, in the following months, the fire became a symbol of a polluted America. It helped galvanize the environmental movement. Even today, the idea of the burning river remains a symbol of industrial neglect of the environment.




A few things have been ignored in the legend surrounding the Cuyahoga fire:

• The Cuyahoga, which flows through the city of Cleveland into Lake Erie, had caught fire at least two times before (in 1936 and 1952). The earlier fires burned much longer and caused much more damage.
• While oil on the river burned, most of the fuel was not industrial but, rather, logs, debris, and household waste washed downstream by the periodic storms that roil the deep, fastmoving river many miles above Cleveland.
• Most important for our understanding of environmental problems, the fire came about because political control replaced the emerging commonlaw rule of strict liability. Had that doctrine been allowed to hold sway, there would probably not have been a fire in 1969.

By catering to special interests, Ohio's regulatory scheme stopped the emergence of a doctrine that would have spurred cleanup. It also helped propel the nation toward national legislation and its costly technological specifications. The Clean Water Act of 1972 may have led to change on the Cuyahoga, but it also stifled innovation in pollution control and wasted vast sums of money, both industry's and the taxpayer's.(5)

In sum, the Cuyahoga fire, which burns on in people's memory as a symbol of industrial indifference, should also be viewed as a symbol of the weaknesses of public regulation.

.........................................

[Knightia]

How much would it cost to REALLY make the water pure? $100/gallon? So, you get my point about risk balanced against cost. And in the past there were risks involved in drinking water also, so the idea of zero health risk drinking water is not on par with the past before industrialization.

Seems a bit pricey( but maybe when all the costs are added up?). How pure is pure enough?( parts perbillion etc, how toxic is toxic( variable i guess...)

Water born Bacterias ,microbe,s deseases ,parasites , in the past made ppl ill *& killed ppl dead( before the industrialization of the present( still do today in some places)- dead is dead.

The water most of us put our body wastes into -is pretty pure imo & what falls from the sky ( even if our toylet bowls arent nessarlly)( good enough to drink) - then we spend billions, to make it to that level( seems a waste) again. And its pure enough for me.


( we drink the pee of our long dead ancestors?

[Knightia]

Gov didnt ban xrays or fluoroscopes( just regulated how its used)


Shoe-Fitting Fluoroscope


Apr 20, 2010 – The shoe fitting fluoroscope was a common fixture in shoe stores during the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. A typical unit, like the Adrian machine ...
www.orau.org/ptp/collection/shoefittingfluor/shoe.htm - Cached - Similar
<LI class="g knavi">
The Straight Dope: Were those old shoe store fluoroscopes a health ...

Nov 27, 1987 – Remember those fluoroscopes we used to wiggle our toes under in shoe stores? We treated them as toys! Overnight they were snatched out of ...
www.straightdope.com/.../were-those-old-shoe-store-fluoroscopes-a-health- hazard - Cached - Similar



Just because it was used carelesslly & unregulated as a fun gimic to sell shoes( id guess the shoesalesmen wernt out to harm children or themselfs)



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I really cant see a reason why DDT was banned- other then hyperbole & the junk science of enviro mentilist extreamists & emotions,& there friends in the EPA etc

(id take a wild guess that the US gov & others has also pressured , bribed with cash etc etc other countrys in the world to do the same.
( Imo ppl should use precautions when dealing with such products )
( would have been a handy to have during things the the great black death plague etc to)

I believe i remember hearing Silient spring - is algores fav book( and author-

Scientist Who Warned Against DDT Ban Dies

Friday, August 06, 2004
By Steven Milloy



Millions in the third world die from malaria every year in large part because of a virtual ban on the controversial insecticide DDT.

The removal of the unwarranted stigma from DDT and the saving of many future lives is now nearer at hand than it has been in the last 30 years thanks to the efforts of Dr. J. Gordon Edwards, who passed away on July 19 at the age of 85.
Though Dr. Edwards is best known to the general public as the author of the now-classic 1961 book "A Climber's Guide to Glacier National Park," his work as an entomologist and professor at San Jose State University may prove to be his most important legacy.


Dr. Edwards led the opposition to environmental extremist efforts to ban DDT in the wake of Rachel Carson's infamous 1962 book "Silent Spring." The testimony of Dr. Edwards and others during Environmental Protection Agency hearings in 1971 on whether to ban the insecticide led to an EPA administrative law judge ruling that, "DDT is not a carcinogenic hazard to man. DDT is not a mutagenic or teratogenic hazard to man. The uses of DDT under the regulations involved here do not have a deleterious effect on freshwater fish, estuarine organisms, wild birds or other wildlife."


Inexplicably — or so it seemed — DDT was nonetheless banned by EPA administrator William Ruckleshaus. Dr. Edwards investigated and uncovered disturbing statements and troubling connections between Ruckleshaus and anti-DDT environmental extremist groups.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128165,00.html

[Knightia]

Why looky there imagine that- insect spread including deadly diseases & viruses etc within the US & its territories- and where not even third world countrys( dont see a mention of hunta virus or the plague in the US- on this page off hand)

Maybe someone should dig out some DDT..... Big daddy gov could allow it to be used.( couldnt" they'?)

Division of Vector-Borne Diseases (DVBD)

About the Division of Vector-Borne Diseases

The Division of Vector-Borne Diseases (DVBD) strives to protect the nation from bacterial and viral diseases transmitted by mosquitoes, ticks and fleas. Some of these diseases have long been present in the United States while others have recently emerged. These include some of the world's most destructive diseases, many of which are increasing threats to human health as the environment changes and globalization increases. CDC/DVBD plays a unique role, housing much of the world’s expertise in the diagnosis, prevention and control of these diseases. More about DVBD »




Vector-Borne Diseases — At a Glance

Dengue and Dengue Hemorrhagic Fever: Spread by mosquitoes, dengue viruses infect up to 100 million people annually. Puerto Rico experienced its largest outbreak in 2010 and Florida has reported local cases for the first time in 75 years. DVBD is working to advance diagnostics, improve patient survival, find new methods of mosquito control and develop innovative vaccines. Read CDC’s Dengue Update for more.
Lyme and other tick-borne diseases: Tick-borne diseases, including Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain spotted fever are serious public health problems, infecting tens of thousands in the U.S. each year. CDC is working closely with local communities, developing innovative control approaches and researching improved diagnostics.
West Nile and other mosquito-borne viruses: West Nile virus swept across the U.S. in less than 10 years, causing over 12,700 cases of severe disease. CDC leads ArboNET, an innovative system to monitor mosquito-borne infections in humans, mosquitoes, birds and other animals. This information allows CDC and states to quickly respond, preventing further cases. CDC and its partners implemented screening of the U.S. blood supply for WNV, preventing 3,000-9,000 transfusion-transmitted infections.
Innovation: DVBD scientists have developed innovative candidate vaccines against dengue and West Nile viruses, including the first DNA vaccine ever to be licensed. We are collaborating with industry to bring to market novel insecticides derived from natural products, and are developing new tools to reduce ticks and mosquitoes that spread disease.
Responding to new and old threats: DVBD scientists are working to reduce the impact of plague, an ancient disease, in the U.S. and in Uganda. On the other hand, we are preparing for emerging epidemics, like chikungunya virus, which spread rapidly throughout the Indian Ocean to Europe. On average, 2 new mosquito-transmitted viruses infective to humans are found each year.

[Knightia]

We are collaborating with industry to bring to market novel insecticides derived from natural products, and are developing new tools to reduce ticks and mosquitoes that spread disease.

Well im real glad to hear that its "natural"& developing - why use something thats been around for 60+ yrs( banned for 30+ yrs) & is effective.

[Terasec]

other things previous generations gave us,
Superfund sites,
polluted streams and rivers,
Smog,
acid rain,


not to bash previous generation, but they werent exactly stewards of the environment either.