What is scary is that it is not just Michael Moore that subscribes to this opinion. We live in a country that is ruled by democracy. To a large extent, what the majority of peolpe think is what is going to happen. Imagine if we voted democratically on how to treat a pain I experienced in my lung a year ago which went away but came back 2 more times. I wonder what the 50.0001% of the voters would prescribe as my treatment? Wierd? Not necessarily. We are talking about 50.0001% of the voters possibly ascribe to Michael Moore's view and ratcheting tax rates for "the wealthy" up to 90% rates. That wouldn't be unconstitutional as far as I know. Democracy is cool and good to the extent that the majority of people walkin' around have a clue. I'm not entirely sure the majority of people walkin' around have a clue. I'm not saying I prefer another form of government, but it certainly isn't a perfect form of government.
I can't begin to criticize Moore's thinking on this. Without having listened to the audio, it would seem the argument would go something like that laid out with some sophistication in JJ Rousseau's "The Origins and Foundations of the Inequalities Among Men." The way the rich got rich was by first out sharping the rest of us and then rigging the game to tilt the tables in their favor. Read the JJ Rousseau book for details. It is pretty convincing. On the other hand, when I look around at people who have done well, not all of them fit the JJ Rousseau model. Maybe some do, but not all. Perhaps they are not filthy rich -- not as rich as John Kerry or his wife or the Kennedys or other such plutocrats -- but they are comfortable. They got there not by duping others but by hard work. And they didn't inherit their money -- unlike the Kennedys and the Kerrys. Reading JJ Rousseau you would think the door is forever closed and there is no upward mobility. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Scott McNeally, and many others would beg to disagree with this argument. And in many more cases of lesser people who got ahead on their own merits. It seems to me these counter examples, no matter how limited in numbers or in percentage, provide some difficulties for the theory JJ Rousseau advances. If the theory is correct, how can these counter examples exist? If the theory is incorrect, then what value does it have other than as a clever, interesting description of what was not in fact experienced by hypothesized? Also, frankly, JJ Rousseau's analysis fits much better to the circumstances of the pre-revolutionary France, the ancienne regime days.
All this is just to try to address the most cogent and persuasively articulated statement of the "the rich got it from us and it really belongs to us" notion that seems now to be broached by Michael Moore without any real supporting argument. Frankly, JJ Rousseau did it better, but they are both off target for current economics.
Exxon Mobil, I just heard about, payed $0 in taxes, got something like a $400 million tax return, has something like 115 offshore tax shelters, etc...
We need simpler tax codes, like trump says, write all the tax laws you want, companies will just hire smarter people to find the loopholes to get around them.
If we could actually make companies pay actual taxes at a fairer rate would be a good start.
Exxon Mobil, I just heard about, payed $0 in taxes, got something like a $400 million tax return, has something like 115 offshore tax shelters, etc...
We need simpler tax codes, like trump says, write all the tax laws you want, companies will just hire smarter people to find the loopholes to get around them.
If we could actually make companies pay actual taxes at a fairer rate would be a good start.
I believe you are right on this one. I also believe we should end all the tax breaks period and it will not belong when big money folks will be heard doing a lot of whining.. Tough for them they expect everyone else to carry them through. Then come on here complaining babout others. Lets see all tax breaks end and I am willing to bet our debt ratio will soon see some changes.
Exxon Mobil, I just heard about, payed $0 in taxes, got something like a $400 million tax return, has something like 115 offshore tax shelters, etc...
We need simpler tax codes, like trump says, write all the tax laws you want, companies will just hire smarter people to find the loopholes to get around them.
If we could actually make companies pay actual taxes at a fairer rate would be a good start.
Here is what Exxon Mobil paid in taxes for 2007. If they are not paying any taxes now, maybe Obama and the dems. are giving them a break.
Corporate profits receive a lot of media attention, but what receives considerably less attention are the corporate taxes paid on corporate profits. Do a Google search for "Exxon profits" and you'll get about 8,000 hits. Now try "Exxon taxes" and you'll get a little more than 300 hits. That's a ratio of about 33 to 1.
I'm pretty sure that Exxon's tax payment in 2007 of $30 billion (that's $30,000,000,000) is a record, exceeding the $28 billion it paid last year.
By the way, Exxon pays taxes at a rate of 41% on its taxable income!
[Update: The $40.6 billion and $39.5 billion figures are after-tax profits. For 2006, Exxon's EBT (earnings before tax) was $67.4 billion, it paid $27.9 billion in taxes (41.4% tax rate), and its NIAT (net income after tax), or profit, was $39.5 billion.]
Over the last three years, Exxon Mobil has paid an average of $27 billion annually in taxes. That's $27,000,000,000 per year, a number so large it's hard to comprehend. Here's one way to put Exxon's taxes into perspective.
According to IRS data for 2004, the most recent year available:
Total number of tax returns: 130 million
Number of Tax Returns for the Bottom 50%: 65 million
Adjusted Gross Income for the Bottom 50%: $922 billion
Total Income Tax Paid by the Bottom 50%: $27.4 billion
Conclusion: In other words, just one corporation (Exxon Mobil) pays as much in taxes ($27 billion) annually as the entire bottom 50% of individual taxpayers, which is 65,000,000 people! Further, the tax rate for the bottom 50% is only 3% of adjusted gross income ($27.4 billion / $922 billion), and the tax rate for Exxon was 41% in 2006 ($67.4 billion in taxable income, $27.9 billion in taxes).
C. Davis
__________________ Am I greedy because I don't want to give you what is mine?
or
Are you greedy because you want to take what is not yours?
I believe you are right on this one. I also believe we should end all the tax breaks period and it will not belong when big money folks will be heard doing a lot of whining.. Tough for them they expect everyone else to carry them through. Then come on here complaining babout others. Lets see all tax breaks end and I am willing to bet our debt ratio will soon see some changes.
Ok, so what do you think the goverment will do drawing all this extra money in? You think they will use it responsibly, or do you think they will seek out more entitlement programs, more socialized health care. More pet projects, bigger school stadiums, more kickbacks to lobbiest that puts them in office.
You really think a company will be more willing to hire another worker if he is paying even more and losing profit?
Sometimes making more money is not the answer. Sometimes living within your means is what matters.
I also believe we should end all the tax breaks period...
Lol--and you voted for who? The dems would never consider eliminating tax breaks--their base pays no taxes. It would dissolve the party if they even took away the earned income credit, much less made these people actually start paying their share.
__________________
"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Lol--and you voted for who? The dems would never consider eliminating tax breaks--their base pays no taxes. It would dissolve the party if they even took away the earned income credit, much less made these people actually start paying their share.
You would be surprise how many would give up those tax breaks to make the rich pay..
You would be surprise how many would give up those tax breaks to make the rich pay..
So how many employees do poor people have? ... You guys are cutting off your noses to spite your face.. What a freaking joke.: happy0157::happy0 157::h appy0157:... Good gosh, I'm hurting from laughing so hard at that foooooolish post...Thanks I needed a good laugh after working so hard to get out of paying taxes...
Wealthy peoples money is not theirs, its ours. Says Moore
... You guys are cutting off your noses to spite your face.. What a freaking joke.
