Sweet Irony.....

[LBR]

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010...kers-children/

This, along with the latest "wiki-leaks" fiasco, just proves the old adage once again--there truly is no honor among theives.

[nodog]

Too bad people don't know thieves when they see one.

[salukipv1]

everyone/company should drop health coverage and stick the gov't with the bill, ie single payer!

[Fieldmouse]

Originally Posted by salukipv1

everyone/company should drop health coverage and stick the gov't with the bill, ie single payer!

And single payer works where? Serious Sal, why don't you move to Cuba. All you do is come on here and demand socialism. It's never worked anywhere.

I love this article because it exposes what I've been saying to Phil. The upper management of his union and every other union is doing very well living off the backs of their union members. It pays to rise in ranks.

It's very sad. The SEIU pushed for this BS and so did AARP. It will be a great day to see Obamacare go down in flames. We need a market based solution!

[Champlain Islander]

Originally Posted by salukipv1

everyone/company should drop health coverage and stick the gov't with the bill, ie single payer!

That works so well in Canada....I wonder why many Canadians come here and pay for their treatments. I had a friend who was a head guide in Newfoundland who had to wait for 13 months to get scheduled for life saving heart bypass surgery up there. No thanks I'll stick with my company paid retirement healthcare benefits which allow me treatment when I need it. And before you start with the younger workers paying for the seniors healthcare FM....I paid for those benefts all through my 34 year career. My benefits/ retirement benefits were part of my total compensation. Without those benefits I would have been paid more every year.

[Fieldmouse]

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander

That works so well in Canada....I wonder why many Canadians come here and pay for their treatments. I had a friend who was a head guide in Newfoundland who had to wait for 13 months to get scheduled for life saving heart bypass surgery up there. No thanks I'll stick with my company paid retirement healthcare benefits which allow me treatment when I need it. And before you start with the younger workers paying for the seniors healthcare FM....I paid for those benefts all through my 34 year career. My benefits/ retirement benefits were part of my total compensation. Without those benefits I would have been paid more every year.

No, that's your Union crap not Medicare correct? I really don't give 2 cents about that. However, when the union fails and your payments can no longer be made, you're on your own! You don't go on my bill nor my children's bill.



I may stand corrected. Your union pays what Medicare doesn't pay correct? If that's the case then you are transferring your bills to the younger generations. With over 60 trillion minimum of unfunded obligations, the system can't continue.

[Champlain Islander]

No union... I was in management and the payments are made by the company with dedicated funds set aside from normal operating funds. If the company goes down the funds are still there and can't be touched. Nothing to do with anyone else and doesn't cost you a cent FM. When I reach 65 I will switch over to medicare with a subsity to make up the difference from my company insurance. Is it costing you...no I paid for it all the way through my career just as you are paying for it with mandatory withholding as directed by your government. My money was the seed to keep it going just as yours is. The fact that the government has mismanaged it has made your money come up short. The money going in isn't enough to keep it going. My guess is that your kids will be expected to pay more in and will be expected to retire later so you will have your benefits.

[Fieldmouse]

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander

No union... I was in management and the payments are made by the company with dedicated funds set aside from normal operating funds. If the company goes down the funds are still there and can't be touched. Nothing to do with anyone else and doesn't cost you a cent FM. When I reach 65 I will switch over to medicare with a subsity to make up the difference from my company insurance. Is it costing you...no I paid for it all the way through my career just as you are paying for it with mandatory withholding as directed by your government. My money was the seed to keep it going just as yours is. The fact that the government has mismanaged it has made your money come up short. The money going in isn't enough to keep it going. My guess is that your kids will be expected to pay more in and will be expected to retire later so you will have your benefits.

Bingo, I'm correct. You are planning on transferring your bills to your children. The fact the government screwed you all your life by taking your money and paying for someone else's healthcare (like your parents and grandparents), is no reason for you to continue the process and screw your kids and grandkids. You just brush it off with, "well i guess the kids will just have to pay more for me" How do you sleep at night knowing the fact that your a millionaire and yet ask your kids to pay for your retirement?

[Champlain Islander]

So to follow your reasoning I should just say take all the money I paid in and accept that it is gone and now I am left with purchasing my own insurance after I already paid for it. Having lots of money is irrelevant and to say that I can afford to take the hit and now buy it on the open market is bogus. The same principle exists for people like me and people who are less able to pay for it. When I pay for something I expect to receive what I paid for. I will admit that at some point a better system needs to be initiated but pulling the plug on the people in the plan isn't the way to go. My first job was for 77.50 per week back in 1967 and times were tough. I managed to buy a house and paid taxes with all the additional FICA stuff taken out. It was hard to feed a family, pay the mortgage and still have enough left over to plan for retirement. I was part of the system and trusted that the money I was paying in would someday come back in the form of social security and Medicare. At times the money going out was at the same level as what was coming in. Thank God for deer hunting which at least put fresh meat on the table for my growing family. Fast forward 43 years and my situation is now vastly different. I worked hard all through the years and now am comfortable due to hard work, wise investments and planning. I did my part and the total picture is complete with the addition of my working years SS account. Things have changed since I started to fund the system and now they tax SS earnings for instance. I understand your position on having your children pay for your social security. They will just keep it going and if you didn’t pay in you wouldn’t be taking anything out. Therefore you have been paying in as long as you have been working and have a vested interest in the fund. In order to not pull the plug on you and I and all the people who came before and are still living the government needs to find a way to keep it going. Can you imagine the ramifications if the government said SS ends next year and sorry. Elderly people who need the fund to survive would be starving and people like you who are only part way through the cycle would be told sorry but all the money you paid in is gone. Now for your children…..any retirement would be 100% on them without the government taking money every pay period. How many of them would have the foresight to still save. My bet is many wouldn’t save a dime and would have nothing when they stop working. In the end the government would be funding them anyways without their contributions so at least today’s system is getting something from them. I feel the system works and ways to fund it need to be explored for my sake, yours and our kids.

[Fieldmouse]

So to follow your reasoning I should just say take all the money I paid in and accept that it is gone and now I am left with purchasing my own insurance after I already paid for it.

Yep, now you're catching on. Means testing needs to be implemented yesterday!

When I pay for something I expect to receive what I paid for.

No, you buried you head in the sand when you were told the truth way back when that it was always pay as you go. You were paying for current retirees. The only thing you listened to was that the system would work and when you retire, someone else would pay for you.

I will admit that at some point a better system needs to be initiated but pulling the plug on the people in the plan isn't the way to go.

So what you're saying is what has always been said, "Don't pull the plug on me. Pull it after I die and screw someone else.". When does it end? You already know its in trouble. I know its in trouble. It needs to be addressed today not 5 years from now.

My first job was for 77.50 per week back in 1967 and times were tough. I managed to buy a house and paid taxes with all the additional FICA stuff taken out. It was hard to feed a family, pay the mortgage and still have enough left over to plan for retirement. I was part of the system and trusted that the money I was paying in would someday come back in the form of social security and Medicare. At times the money going out was at the same level as what was coming in. Thank God for deer hunting which at least put fresh meat on the table for my growing family. Fast forward 43 years and my situation is now vastly different. I worked hard all through the years and now am comfortable due to hard work, wise investments and planning. I did my part and the total picture is complete with the addition of my working years SS account. Things have changed since I started to fund the system and now they tax SS earnings for instance. I understand your position on having your children pay for your social security. They will just keep it going and if you didn’t pay in you wouldn’t be taking anything out. Therefore you have been paying in as long as you have been working and have a vested interest in the fund. In order to not pull the plug on you and I and all the people who came before and are still living the government needs to find a way to keep it going.

My life story is your life story. It's a personal problem. The system is crashing. It's over and bankrupt. In the near future, it will gobble up 100% of the federal budget. There are 2 ways to fix it. Raise the retirement age to 85 or begin to means test everyone 40 and over with anyone younger, theirs gets privatised. The real study puts it at 45 because at that age, all money in a private account makes up for what the government would pay you.

Can you imagine the ramifications if the government said SS ends next year and sorry. Elderly people who need the fund to survive would be starving and people like you who are only part way through the cycle would be told sorry but all the money you paid in is gone.

It's called means testing. It's best to begin now. The longer you wait, the worst it will get. Besides, you and anyone who is retired has been voting for this crap. Anyone running for office 20 years ago wanting to fix the problem back then when it was small was run out of town. It hasn't been fixed and it has only got worst over time.

Now for your children…..any retirement would be 100% on them without the government taking money every pay period.

If you thinks it's legal for the government to take it out of your paycheck now, why wouldn't you agree its legal for them to take it and put it into your own private account locked away until death or retirement?

How many of them would have the foresight to still save. My bet is many wouldn’t save a dime and would have nothing when they stop working.

Hmm, are you sure you want that bet? The alternative, the government, has proven they can't do it and is going broke while still handing you, your kids and grandkids the bill. Remember 100% of the federal government going to social programs. What happens then?

In the end the government would be funding them anyways without their contributions so at least today’s system is getting something from them. I feel the system works and ways to fund it need to be explored for my sake, yours and our kids.

You're proving my point. You have hidden your head in the sand all your life and refused to listen to reallity. Oh but the promises sound so good! The system is collapsing and the baby boomers are just about to retire. What you're hopining for will only push the knife in deeper. One thing is for sure, The Greatest Generation in the end screwed us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!