A Perverse Incentive...

[vc1111]

From CNN, so by default it must be lies, right?

Read it: It bespeaks what too often happens within the confines of many medical establishments:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/...sts/index.html

In 1992, Medicare spending in McAllen was under the national average. But, since then, the business of medicine here has exploded, and Dr. Javier Ramirez has seen the change firsthand.

Gee, who brought up the concept of regional differences? Hmm, let me think…oh, yea..that was me...years ago!

"You have to care for patients first, and then worry about whether you're going to make money. You cannot put money before patients," he said.

Oh, this guy is going against the grain. What an idiot, eh? This doctor is worried about the patient first? What is wrong with him? But then, isn’t that what all the providers say when they complain about insurance company oversight of their fees and the ordering of tests and other questionable procedures???



After all, according to FM and Alsatian, the primary concern is if people are ‘satisfied’ with their ‘health care.’ Why should anyone be concerned with costs? This is, after all, a legal way to line your pockets, in the name of providing “the best health care in the world.”

Doctor's Hospital at Renaissance has brought cutting edge technology and world-class services to South Texas, including robotic surgery, state-of-the-art radiology, 45 medical specialties and 17 facilities, she said. What's hard to imagine is that they've been able to finance all of this growth and expansion when, according to Turley, 75 percent of their patients are on Medicare or Medicaid.

What? What??? But I thought FM said the providers were going broke because Medicare and Medicaid cheated them by limiting fees? How can this be? They must be selling drugs out of the back door or something. Surely the spokesman for the hospital is lying, eh? After all, FM is an expert on these matters, right? How can they fund all that stuff on Medicare/Medicaid money??? Liars! Liars!

“It also increases the amount of money the hospital makes, since higher-cost tests, procedures and facilities are reimbursed at higher rates by insurers.”

Nope, no problem here. Nothing wrong with that, is there? That will have zero effect on the rates your employer pays for insurance, right? And that's your employer's problem, after all. It's all good, boys. Just go back to sleep for now.



What the providers do is none of the employer's business, right? Its all legal too, isn’t it? I guess that rules out the idea of “small, independent legislation, which Alsatian so favors, eh?

The hospital doesn't bill any more than any other hospital in the region, Turley said.

Ah, yes, there you have it!…we have our tracks well covered, don’t we? We’ve met the Holy Grail test…we’re not out of line with the region’s “usual-customary-reasonable” requirements, are we? So there!

"Health care will not be affordable for the middle class in another 10 years if costs keep growing as they are now," Fisher said.

Oh, this guy is a trouble-maker, isn’t he? Tell him about how the Canadians occasionally come here, man! Tell him about how we have ‘the best health care system in the world!’

Please, will someone tell him essentially: “The end justifies the means. Cost is irrelevant.”

"For a long time, there was a general staff meeting, there was kind of a law: You have to refer [patients] to doctors that are part of the partnership. This is your hospital, make it grow," he said.

Ah, yea, man. Its ‘your hospital.’ No conflict of interests there and it is legal, right?

"We're rewarding people for doing stuff that's paid well.”

Now that right there, that's some true-blue American stuff, isn't it? No problem until you start applying those zany things that apply to law and a variety of professions...those silly 'ethics' and questions about 'conflicts of interests.'

"Health care will not be affordable for the middle class in another 10 years if costs keep growing as they are now," Fisher said.

But hey...not to worry. You're 'satisfied,' right?

...for now.

[Mr. Conservatism]

VC, I believe we desperately need health care reform. Costs must be contained. It gets worse every year. Both parties need to sit down and come up with some solutions in a bipartisan way. The Democratic plan is unworkable. The Republicans don't have any answers except "NO". The American people will be the losers if something constructive isn't done.

[Ol'Mongo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Conservatism

VC, I believe we desperately need health care reform. Costs must be contained. It gets worse every year. Both parties need to sit down and come up with some solutions in a bipartisan way. The Democratic plan is unworkable. The Republicans don't have any answers except "NO". The American people will be the losers if something constructive isn't done.

Actually the Repubs have offered several answers that have fallen on deaf ears in the liberals zeal to ram through their version of "socialized medicine." The Dems don't want tort reform because the Trial Attorneys are their biggest backers and they don't want interstate sales of insurance because they think it infringes on the individual state insurance commission regulation. You see the same thing with milk and "boutique" gasoline formulas, Dems like regulation and control, not competition. I agree with you that the American people are the ultimate losers.

[Fieldmouse]

Too funny, VC cherry picks a hospital in TX where they have tort reform passed by law and now it's suposed to be the norm of the nation. If that wasn't funny enough, VC you have shown your complete lack of understanding when it comes to capitalism because your a government worker. This statement dosen't jive one bit:

"Health care will not be affordable for the middle class in another 10 years if costs keep growing as they are now," Fisher said.

So let me get this straight, the middle class is a very large segment of the population with money to spend, yet their money will be no good, nothing new will ever come along because after all the phrase Necessity the mother of all invention was a lie? I guess as an inventor and entreprenuer in the medical field, I'm screwed right?

Hey VC or should I say IDTENTEE, notice I don't play your stupid game and make the claim "I now go back to ignore you". I guess you lied again, right? You're looking pretty stupid on this post. You've once again twisted words, oh but you would never do it would you? Why do anything with healthcare when unemployment is 17%+, we have a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit and we face a 60 trillion dollar medicare/medicaid deficit for which you have never addressed. Is it because your about to become the problem?

[Doe Dumper]

Its funny how Medicare and Medicaid are trumpeted as great example of how government health care would be so great......all the while never mentioning they are completely broke with huge deficits that will probably never be made up. Truth be known those 2 and government regulations and mandates are the main reasons why health care is so expensive now.

[vc1111]

Dumper:

Its funny how Medicare and Medicaid are trumpeted as great example of how government health care would be so great......

Please show proof that the article or anything I've written on this thread "trumpets" any such thing. I defy you.

On the contrary, remove the over-utilization and over-billing, which was so clearly illustrated in this common example and then tell me the two government programs (which we all pay for) would not be better off. I defy you to do that also.

The article show that even on the low rates paid by even the restrictive government programs, there is obviously PLENTY of room for corruption and graft by the providers.

Reform starts with examining from whence rising costs originate, period.

I find it actually humorous that the first thing you hope to do is politicize the issue. This is not a left/right issue; its an American issue.

You didn't seem to even notice or mind the obvious financial conflicts of interests in this extremely commonplace scenario. It is a scenario which I've highlighted at least a half dozen times on this forum. Perhaps we need to examine exactly how many people in medicine own another piece of medicine to which they refer patients on a regular basis. We legally forbid and preclude these types of sweetheart arrangements in a variety of other fields.

Once again: "It's the cost, stupid."

Mongo:

Actually the Repubs have offered several answers that have fallen on deaf ears in the liberals zeal to ram through their version of "socialized medicine."

Maybe. But show me where this commonplace form of legal theft has ever been addressed by either side.

Dems don't want tort reform because the Trial Attorneys are their biggest backers and they don't want interstate sales of insurance because they think it infringes on the individual state insurance commission regulation.

Again...maybe. Ips provided what seemed to me to be pretty convincing details as to the idea that tort reform has already been laid down in most states . As to the 'individual state insurance regulation' check out why and how that was imposed and then explain how that will be overturned...not that it should or should not be, but look at it. Do you want centralized regulation of that industry? (See Mccarran-Ferguson Act 1945)

Has that concept outlived its usefulness? Are there truly regional differences in utilization rates? Do we want an amorphous rating system, wherein people in one area might subsidize the poor lifestyle choices (morbidity rates) of another area? Are urban environments as "healthy" as rural? Will needed reform be feasible once the power to regulate is handed over to a central government (federal) agency? Will enforcing anti-trust and anti-collusion measures preclude sharing of information for the formulation of actuarial tables over large enough numbers to obtain accuracy needed for a reasonable profit over long periods of time?

You tell me. I do not know. But I do know that once that cat is out of the proverbial legislative bag, she ain't goin' back in any time soon.

[Fieldmouse]

So, then I take it we can safely put VC down in the Death Panels column? After all, if your not willing to allow the rationing via the ability to pay it certainly seems you want a third party panel to preapprove an medical procedure that your doctor wants to perform.

[Fieldmouse]

Here is another good idea to get a handle on costs. Lets pull all federal funding for medical research. After all, the result is more costly treatments hitting the market we can't afford anyway. So why should we fund something that is raising the cost of medical care? Isn't that a good idea VC?

[vc1111]

So, then I take it we can safely put VC down in the Death Panels column? After all, if your not willing to allow the rationing via the ability to pay it certainly seems you want a third party panel to preapprove an medical procedure that your doctor wants to perform.

Uh, yea, FM, whatever.

Here is another good idea to get a handle on costs. Lets pull all federal funding for medical research. After all, the result is more costly treatments hitting the market we can't afford anyway. So why should we fund something that is raising the cost of medical care? Isn't that a good idea VC?

I provided clear and irrefutable evidence from a reliable third party, which obviously confirms what I've been saying.

And you? You have to resort to more blubbering about something, anything in hopes of trying to cover your shortcomings. Lol, nice try. Now sit down, boy, you bother me.

[Charlie P]

Lets pull all federal funding for medical research.

You were all for that a couple months ago weren't you. If it shows promise the private sector will fund it, or was that just for stem cell research?