I can't answer those things definitively VC. I can only offer some personal opinions on medicaid. I don't mean to sound uncaring or callous, but I do think a person's family has some responsibility for the care of its elderly. I know.....that is burdensome. My wife and I have done it for our aged parents who have passed on now. It was difficult....it is probably impossible for some. But what did we do before medicaid? What do they do in third world countries?
I do think there is room for more of this type of responsibility to be assumed by the private sector. As a country, we're flat broke. Many of our states are also broke. When I consider all that the government gives away in entitlements ...plus the vast numbers of people who depend on government at various levels for a job (local, city, county, schools, states, and the fed)....it is obvious to me that the takers now outnumber the providers. Private enterprise (especially small business) continues to take a beating due to increasing taxes and governmental regulations. So, I have to conclude....something has to give somewhere. As a nation, we have some very difficult decisions before us. I hope we will find some visionary leaders with the wisdom and discernment to help us in the years ahead. I don't see many like that in the White House or the state house. So let me ask...I know from these boards that you will tell us...what do you think?
No, your neighbors must pay for VC's care. It's only logical. Sometime everyone is going to need the assistance from big government, so you might as well expect to pay up now.
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
DIE Quickly. Thats what they did. OHh i think a Dem used that one a few months ago. The reason we SHOULD take care of our parents in the old year is THE TOOK CARE OF US FOR !* PLUS YEARS. my parents are why i have a nice truck. My parents are why i can do to school. My dad is why i get paid to do so. God forbid they need me to take care of them i will no problem. Why should I take care of some crackheads family because they have Medicaid and not the people who have helped build this country. In the third world country's they die. Heck do you really think there are alot of 90 year old people in IRAQ i doubt it. If we let old people die why spend money on a 30 year old with lung cancer. Or a 2 year old with cancer. Where do you draw the line. I bet when you parents where in there final years you did not think dam they should take there Medicare away so my neighbor is ant paying them to live. What the ****. I want health care for all free insurance if you can not pay. Cover everything needed. I just do not want to have a obama nation with no rights and still have crappy insurance. I watched my mom and dad take care of my dad's parents. They both had cancer. Sure they where drain on the Medicare system. Sure they cost the government thousands of dollars. But better taking care of them then bailing some bank or company out. Or giving it to a area that does not exist
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Originally Posted by Mr. Conservatism
I can't answer those things definitively VC. I can only offer some personal opinions on medicaid. I don't mean to sound uncaring or callous, but I do think a person's family has some responsibility for the care of its elderly. I know.....that is burdensome. My wife and I have done it for our aged parents who have passed on now. It was difficult....it is probably impossible for some. But what did we do before medicaid? What do they do in third world countries?
I do think there is room for more of this type of responsibility to be assumed by the private sector. As a country, we're flat broke. Many of our states are also broke. When I consider all that the government gives away in entitlements ...plus the vast numbers of people who depend on government at various levels for a job (local, city, county, schools, states, and the fed)....it is obvious to me that the takers now outnumber the providers. Private enterprise (especially small business) continues to take a beating due to increasing taxes and governmental regulations. So, I have to conclude....something has to give somewhere. As a nation, we have some very difficult decisions before us. I hope we will find some visionary leaders with the wisdom and discernment to help us in the years ahead. I don't see many like that in the White House or the state house. So let me ask...I know from these boards that you will tell us...what do you think?
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Si vis pacem, para bellum.
If you want peace, prepare for war.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson
Team 17: Kickers and Stickers
As a nation, we have some very difficult decisions before us. I hope we will find some visionary leaders with the wisdom and discernment to help us in the years ahead.
First, that was an excellent post. You ran across the spectrum of concerns very well.
In the quote above, you mention "the years ahead." In the years ahead we'll have a large percentage of the population retiring and aging. This will be a generation with very little in the way of retirement funds and little guarantees as to how long those funds will last. The so-called Baby Boomers are now heading into this zone...
Last year, many of their numbers lost a large percentage of what was earmarked for retirement and they didn't have that much to begin with. Most of them will march into retirement with inadequate funds to meet ordinary expenses over long periods of time. Thus, not only will they most likely be ill prepared for their needs for long term care, they may very well be unable to feed and shelter themselves even if they are healthy and able to physically go about their day.
They will likely "spend down" most, if not all of their assets prior to the need for long term care or any variation of the same. Medicaid will be likely strained by the sheer numbers.
I have no problem with the current "spend down" provisions. I do have some problems with the concept of planning which is essentially designed to "hide" funds or otherwise protect funds from the so-called spend down provisions. I think people have an obligation to spend what they have as long as they can on their own care. I know it is often more complicated than that because the spending of one could often leave zero dollars for a surviving spouse...and yes, I know the provisions are not that cut and dried but you get the idea.
It is a complex, massive issue looming in the background against the backdrop of this nation's insane spending, which you articulately mentioned.
I hold no hope at all that we will somehow find visionaries with answers to this question. Instead they will duck the issue, just as they ducked the questions of health care costs in America for so many years.
bigtime:
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God forbid they need me to take care of them i will no problem.
No offense, but talk is cheap. Can you provide round the clock care? Are you sure? Food? Medicine? Bathing? Bathroom? Can you physically do it when you are say, 60 and your parent or parents are in their 80's? Or will you have your own health issues? How can you even say with any certainty? Can you take that much time off work without losing your job? Talk is cheap. If it were that easy, it would not be a question in this new "two income" America. I'm not saying that you should not take care of elderly parents or grandparents; instead I agree that you should. I am being realistic. I am talking about what I see here and now in America and looking ahead at the massive numbers of elderly we are about to have.
Add this to the equation: Modern medicine can extend life expectancies unheard of just 50 years ago. This problem is often not short-lived after someone reaches the point where they need 24 hour care.
I have no easy answers, but I know that doing it yourself isn't always that simple or easy either.
I think people have an obligation to spend what they have as long as they can on their own care.
From a guy who couldn't say what was wrong with someone spending their own money and then declaring bankruptcy and then going on Medicaid. As I pointed out several times, only a judge is in the best position to determine this. The reason why you couldn't say what was wrong is because you agree with the principle point.
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No offense, but talk is cheap. Can you provide round the clock care? Are you sure? Food? Medicine? Bathing? Bathroom? Can you physically do it when you are say, 60 and your parent or parents are in their 80's? Or will you have your own health issues? How can you even say with any certainty? Can you take that much time off work without losing your job? Talk is cheap. If it were that easy, it would not be a question in this new "two income" America. I'm not saying that you should not take care of elderly parents or grandparents; instead I agree that you should. I am being realistic. I am talking about what I see here and now in America and looking ahead at the massive numbers of elderly we are about to have.
Add this to the equation: Modern medicine can extend life expectancies unheard of just 50 years ago. This problem is often not short-lived after someone reaches the point where they need 24 hour care.
I have no easy answers, but I know that doing it yourself isn't always that simple or easy either.
I'm in full agreement with what you have said here. Besides my Mom who has been in the biz the last 20 years of her work and having to work with the government agencies on the hospital's behalf. My fishing buddy owns several assisted living homes. Some of the people that come to him are very sad cases. What the government has stolen from them over their lifetime could have provided for them a very comfortable retirement if it was kept in their private account.
We as a society need to end this practice of the government's empty promises. Phase out Medicare/Medicaid and SS over the next 3 decades. Allow those that are in their 30's or below to opt out and invest their own money in their own accounts. It's too late for the order generation but hey, they have been voting for 50+/- years for all the BS. Why force this stuff on the younger generation?
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
First, that was an excellent post. You ran across the spectrum of concerns very well.
In the quote above, you mention "the years ahead." In the years ahead we'll have a large percentage of the population retiring and aging. This will be a generation with very little in the way of retirement funds and little guarantees as to how long those funds will last. The so-called Baby Boomers are now heading into this zone...
They will likely "spend down" most, if not all of their assets prior to the need for long term care or any variation of the same. Medicaid will be likely strained by the sheer numbers.
I have no problem with the current "spend down" provisions. I do have some problems with the concept of planning which is essentially designed to "hide" funds or otherwise protect funds from the so-called spend down provisions. I think people have an obligation to spend what they have as long as they can on their own care. I know it is often more complicated than that because the spending of one could often leave zero dollars for a surviving spouse...and yes, I know the provisions are not that cut and dried but you get the idea.
It is a complex, massive issue looming in the background against the backdrop of this nation's insane spending, .........
bigtime:
No offense, but talk is cheap. Can you provide round the clock care? Are you sure? Food? Medicine? Bathing? Bathroom? Can you physically do it when you are say, 60 and your parent or parents are in their 80's? Or will you have your own health issues? How can you even say with any certainty? Can you take that much time off work without losing your job? Talk is cheap. If it were that easy, it would not be a question in this new "two income" America. I'm not saying that you should not take care of elderly parents or grandparents; instead I agree that you should. I am being realistic. I am talking about what I see here and now in America and looking ahead at the massive numbers of elderly we are about to have.
Add this to the equation: Modern medicine can extend life expectancies unheard of just 50 years ago. This problem is often not short-lived after someone reaches the point where they need 24 hour care.
I have no easy answers, but I know that doing it yourself isn't always that simple or easy either.
You are right..it is around the clock care. It does get messy and dirty. My wife and I have done it...we've been there. However, we are a one income family...always have been. My wife decided early on that she wanted to stay home and raise our children. We raised three children and sent all of them to private colleges. Two of them are teachers with masters degrees. The third is a New York State Trooper who has his bachelors degree. Such decisions come with a cost. I am 57 and have a mortgage on my home that will not be paid off until I'm 66. Fortunately, our parents became aged and debilitated AFTER our children left home. My wife is a terrific woman...she has stayed home raising our kids and has cared for elderly parents until their demise. She is a committed lady and I am a very fortunate husband. I needed to work full time...couldn't afford not to. If she had not been willing to forego a career to do those things, we couldn't possibly have done them. So, you are correct VC. You are also correct in your response to bigtim. Talk is easy. Changing an elderly parents diapers and bedding isn't. Those who undertake total parental care need to count the cost...time wise, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and financially.
My wife is a terrific woman...she has stayed home raising our kids and has cared for elderly parents until their demise. She is a committed lady and I am a very fortunate husband. I needed to work full time...couldn't afford not to. If she had not been willing to forego a career to do those things, we couldn't possibly have done them.
Just for the record, Medicaid is the program that provides medical care for those on public assistance or those who are disabled. The program for the elderly is Medicare and anyone reaching a certain age qualifies. There is no additional cost for Medicare Part A which pays hospital bills. Part B costs $80-90 per month and pays doctor bills. You also, if you're smart, will purchase supplemental insurance from a private carrier which will cover some of what Medicare does not. That will cost you anywhere from $50-100 per month.
Veterinary care is not covered no matter how old a sheep is
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Proud parents of our own "Daddy's Little Girls"
I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.
To the initial question, there is no "Constitutional" right to health care and I often ask what the distinction is between a "right" to health care versus a right to shelter or nourishment, both of which will kill you much quicker than a lack of health care. Unfortunately, the socialist societies with these systems have converted the whole issue into a "cost/risk" problem, hence their rationed care or "death committees." In that arena, I have yet to hear how those liberals reconcile this argument with, say,... AIDS/HIV care. It's a virtually .9999% voluntarily incurred infection which costs a TON of $$$$$ to treat. For fun, ask a liberal, healthcare supporter how they will deal THIS problem.
With all of this said, several of the prior posts accurately point out there is an existing responsibility for family and a place for charities. I'm old enough (just barely) to remember when that was the case but local governments where I live have been killing charities, especially religious ones. Our children are warehousing their parents rather than assuming care responsibilities and citizens, unfortunately, are big on their "rights" without ever having to define, defend or assist in their procurement or maintenance.
"Medicaid planning"...or so-called "elder care practices"
