I just saw this article about a recent study by the Univ. of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. I definately have questions about the methodology and implications made in the article.
.... What Penn researchers found was alarming – almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered. A 2005 National Academy of Science report concluded that we continue to know very little about the impact of gun possession on homicide or the utility of guns for self-defense. Past studies had explored the relationship between homicides and having a gun in the home, purchasing a gun, or owning a gun. These studies, unlike the Penn study, did not address the risk or protection that having a gun might create for a person at thetime of a shooting. Penn researchers investigated the link between being shot in an assault and a person’s possession of a gun at the time of the shooting. As identified by police and medical examiners, they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in posssion of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot ....
Were the situations screened to exclude shootings associated with drug deals? Assassinations?
I bolded a portion that causes me a small problem. It's sound advice, but does the study mention that there are sefl-defense course available and that many responsible gun owners take them? How many of the shooters and victims were NRA or GOA members? Took a course, any course, on firearms safety? These are stats that have important bearing on the issue of gun owndership.
I smell something and it ain't nice. Interesting that this comes out soon before the SCOTUS is about hear another case on the 2nd Amendment.
Be vigiliant and guard your rights.
__________________
Days Full Of Clays...
NWTF, DU, SCI
I'm not saying I agree with the study. Even if the study is correct, I don't know if the proper conclusion is to toss your guns. In Switzerland they require their heads of household to own a defensive weapon (may be what we would call an "assault rifle" in the US, but I'm not sure of this information) and ammo for the same, and further to demonstrate proficiency shooting this weapon at least once a year, maybe several times a year. If you want to keep a firearm in your house, learn how to use it and handle it at the shooting range 2 or more times per year!
Let me share a story that may be typical of non-hunting firearms owners. I found a loaded .357 magnum revolver under the bed of my mother-in-law. It was the pistol of my deceased father-in-law. After unloading the pistol, placing the cartridges in a drawer, and maybe putting the pistol back under the bed, I asked my mother-in-law what the idea was. She said she kept it there in case a burglar invaded the house. The question is what is going to happen if my 86 years old mother-in-law, when awoken from her bed in the middle of the night by breaking glass or crunching wood giving under force of a crowbar, unable to find her glasses, fumbling on her two artificial knees is going to do with a loaded .357 magnum revolver that she has never fired. Add to this context that she has almost certainly never fired any other pistol or possibly any other firearm whatsoever. She is going to shoot herself. She is going to have the pistol taken from her by the burglar and have it used against her. She may scare the burglar away if she immediately shoots into the ceiling. The most likely scenario is that the burglar never comes but instead her 7 year old great grand daughter finds the loaded pistol under the bed and shoots herself playing. I bet this scenario is not unique: people totally unfamiliar with the use of firearms have loaded firearms in their houses. The danger is associated with the lack of experience and knowledge. I say the answer is encourage those people, if they want to keep a firearm, to get both experience and knowledge of safe use and keeping of firearms, not necessarily mandated by new gun control legislation, however.
Well, I've carried one for almost 40 years and I've felt more protection than peril! Two times I've need one, once to respond to fire, and the other time to restrain a wood be robber, no PERIL at all!
O.K., so of the 677 RANDOM shooting victims, 40 of them had possession of a gun at the time. SO, where are the facts that tell us, who fired first, bad guy or good guy, and where are the facts as to how many bad guys got shot as a result of the good guy having said gun. How many of those 40 even drew the weapon? How many had permits that allowed them to legally carry?
This study leaves out a lot of relitively important details, or at least, those details were left out of the published "for our eyes" report, like so many studys before it!!
__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
I have 3 rifles and 2 shotguns, one a Remington SP-10 Mag 10 gauge, which loaded with 00 buck shot, is what I would use for home defense. However, I keep the guns unloaded and locked in a safe as required by California law. I have often felt very conflicted about this since I realize that if an armed intruder broke into my house it would take a considerable amount of time to open the safe, get the SP-10 out and load it. On the other hand as a doctor who has treated accidental gun shots I know having a loaded unsecured firearm in the home probably represents a greater risk to the residents of the house than protection from criminals for them. This is particularly true if there are children or even adolescents in the house. Therefore I keep the guns unloaded and locked up since the risk of a break in by an armed intruder are almost non-existent in my neighborhood and I do not want to expose my family to the risks of a loaded unsecured firearm.
I'm not saying I agree with the study. Even if the study is correct, I don't know if the proper conclusion is to toss your guns. In Switzerland they require their heads of household to own a defensive weapon (may be what we would call an "assault rifle" in the US, but I'm not sure of this information) and ammo for the same, and further to demonstrate proficiency shooting this weapon at least once a year, maybe several times a year. If you want to keep a firearm in your house, learn how to use it and handle it at the shooting range 2 or more times per year!
Let me share a story that may be typical of non-hunting firearms owners. I found a loaded .357 magnum revolver under the bed of my mother-in-law. It was the pistol of my deceased father-in-law. After unloading the pistol, placing the cartridges in a drawer, and maybe putting the pistol back under the bed, I asked my mother-in-law what the idea was. She said she kept it there in case a burglar invaded the house. The question is what is going to happen if my 86 years old mother-in-law, when awoken from her bed in the middle of the night by breaking glass or crunching wood giving under force of a crowbar, unable to find her glasses, fumbling on her two artificial knees is going to do with a loaded .357 magnum revolver that she has never fired. Add to this context that she has almost certainly never fired any other pistol or possibly any other firearm whatsoever. She is going to shoot herself. She is going to have the pistol taken from her by the burglar and have it used against her. She may scare the burglar away if she immediately shoots into the ceiling. The most likely scenario is that the burglar never comes but instead her 7 year old great grand daughter finds the loaded pistol under the bed and shoots herself playing. I bet this scenario is not unique: people totally unfamiliar with the use of firearms have loaded firearms in their houses. The danger is associated with the lack of experience and knowledge. I say the answer is encourage those people, if they want to keep a firearm, to get both experience and knowledge of safe use and keeping of firearms, not necessarily mandated by new gun control legislation, however.
So instead you left her with an unloaded gun and didn't tell her? That's probably not the best solution. Does she not have the same right to self defense as you and I? All you did was leave her defensless, and thinking she is not. Good job.
Maybe you could have helped her get something to store it safely in that she could still have easy access to? Seems I've heard of something like that before. And there's another recent invention, the name escapes me, oh yeah, practice. You could have helped her become familiar with it instead of secretly "protecting her" from it.
And your assumption that non-hunting firearm owners are inherently unsafe is just retarded. Hunters are no more responsible than anyone else. Of all the people in the woods every year with guns, drunk, shooting in restricted areas, how many do you think are hunters? Probably the majority. Non-hunting gun owners usually go to ranges, at least city dwelling types. I run into hunters in the woods all the time that are drunk, carrying their weapon unsafely, shooting in restricted areas, etc..... Of course this is public land, but I bet that accounts for the majority of hunting land. So I'm comming across a good cross section of hunters. Of course, some are the most responsible people on earth. But don't tell me no hunter would ever be unsafe with a firearm.
__________________
While you rest, someone, somewhere, is training. When you meet, you will lose.
Ar son an teaghlagh, Le Dia.
Last edited by elgallo114; 10-01-2009 at 08:46 AM.
I have 3 rifles and 2 shotguns, one a Remington SP-10 Mag 10 gauge, which loaded with 00 buck shot, is what I would use for home defense. However, I keep the guns unloaded and locked in a safe as required by California law. I have often felt very conflicted about this since I realize that if an armed intruder broke into my house it would take a considerable amount of time to open the safe, get the SP-10 out and load it. On the other hand as a doctor who has treated accidental gun shots I know having a loaded unsecured firearm in the home probably represents a greater risk to the residents of the house than protection from criminals for them. This is particularly true if there are children or even adolescents in the house. Therefore I keep the guns unloaded and locked up since the risk of a break in by an armed intruder are almost non-existent in my neighborhood and I do not want to expose my family to the risks of a loaded unsecured firearm.
There is no law saying you must keep it unloaded in California. In fact it says the contrary. Your dwelling is one of the few places they cannot restirct you from possessing a loaded firearm. The Children's firearm act simply says you can be held criminally responsible if a minor obtains your loaded gun and injures himself or others. The part about keeping it unloaded is in the "firearms laws booklet" and is an editorial type paragraph that uses the word "should." When this word is used in any legal publication in California, it is not intended for it to mean "must" or "shall" which would imply a law. Here is the paragraph many mis-interpret.
Under the Children’s Firearm Accident Prevention Act of 1991, any person who keeps a
loaded firearm where a child obtains and improperly uses it, may be fined or sent to prison.
(Penal Code §§ 12035, 12036, 12071.)
To prevent unnecessary injury or death caused by improper storage of firearms in the home
where children (under age 18) are likely to be present, and to help prevent the possibility of
criminal prosecution, all firearms should be unloaded, locked with a trigger locking device
that renders the firearm inoperable, and stored in a locked container.
Ammunition should be stored in a location separate from the firearm. Other means of safe
storage include trigger locking devices, or locking firearm safes or cabinets. For
information on obtaining firearm safety devices or how they operate, contact a firearms
dealer, firearms club or association which promotes firearm safety training courses, the
manufacturer of such devices, or visit the Department of Justice Firearms Division website
Study says guns are more peril than protection
