The incomes of the young and middle-aged — especially men — have fallen off a cliff since 2000, leaving many age groups poorer than they were even in the 1970s, a USA TODAY analysis of new Census data found.
Yep, My pay has been cut by $100 per month and my wife's has been cut $500 per month. So, now we have to get by with $600 less per month. We have always been very conservative in our finances, so we have very little fat to trim as far as spending goes. I'm not sure what will happen to us. Let the good times roll!
This slide in real wages been happening for 30 years. It was accelerated when well paying manufacturing jobs went away to China and were replaced by service sector jobs.
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,186
Ask a Demo. why that is and you will get. It’s all Bush's fault. Even 30 years ago, he used his spooky hurricane machine to whip up the crisis. Bet yall didn’t know his spooky machines were able to travel through time.
I agree, it has a lot to do with NAFTA, Unions, and the like. I had to sell a business due to NAFTA. I paid my workers a decent wage, but after NAFTA came about, most of my competition went to Mexico to pay slave wages. Instead of moving on, I just sold.
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
J.F.K. hated liberals.
Last edited by burniegoeasily; 09-18-2009 at 11:50 AM.
This slide in real wages been happening for 30 years. It was accelerated when well paying manufacturing jobs went away to China and were replaced by service sector jobs.
Hog wash, pay and hourly pay has been increasing over several decades. To take todays slump in the recesion and speak of it as it the trend is completely bs unless you talk about the guidence out of Washington. Unfortunately today, you have both a White House and both the Senate and House, anti business and anti profits. Don't look for a turn around anytime soon from guys.
FYI, getting ready to tee up a huge year and next year guys. I don't play on Washington's schedule. I make my own. You should also.
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
i did: Landed a multimillion dollar overseas contract.
congrats, welcome to the global economy.
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
"Fallen off a cliff. . . " is a little sensationalized. I would prefer some objective numbers.
Nevertheless, while I have heard some offer figures to the contrary, I believe real wages are dropping and have been dropping for a very long time. I remember going to a presentation to the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) in 1995 and being dismayed by the marshalling of facts and figures by a seasoned engineer to make the case that real wages for engineers had been dropping for about 20 years. I'm pretty sure at that time it wasn't just engineers wages that had been falling.
I'm not sure I understand what has been making this happen. I suspect that part of this effect is driven by large corporations engaging in a kind of wage fixing -- setting wages by a form of norming that mathematically dampens out upward tendencies of wages. I suspect a part of the effect in the past is driven by bringing in foreign engineers into the US (an explanation at least for engineering salary stagnation) via the H1B visa program, a corrupt and much manipulated system. I suspect part of the effect NOW is driven by offshoring of various work -- assembly, manufacturing, engineering.
I do not see it is the role of government to address these issues. My own opinion is that each individual is responsible for figuring out the changes going down and adapting themselves to changed economic circumstances. Well before all of this, there was a huge economic move of people away from agricultural occupations. People seemed to make that major economic shift without the government holding their hand and showing them the way.
Now, while I have seen these effects above, I myself have adapted and been able to maintain a 10% annual salary increase, on average from 1984 to present. I'm not the sharpest blade in the draw, maybe just slightly above average intelligence. I have made good, well considered decisions, but nothing that required Einstein-like foresight. So, it can be done. I have seen others adapt and keep in the money. Unfortunately, this economy does not seem to provide that kind of possible salary growth to blue collar employees. You could maybe do OK as a blue collar business owner (plumber, contractor, etc.).
Some of the things I have done is pursue a second college degree, not a masters, a second undergraduate degree in engineering after first getting a degree in English and minor in Philosophy. Not much carry over into Engineering: I had to do 100 hours to get there -- almost like starting over from scratch. I did this while working full-time, about half while married with children, over a period of about 11 years. I have moved from low opportunity state -- Illinois in 1981 (era the term "the rust belt" was coined) to a high opportunity state and locale: Dallas, Texas. I have taken risks by quitting employers to hire on with other employers to get improved wages and better work experience in a growing industry rather than a stagnant industry sector. All of these actions involved sacrifice, risk, initiative, and significant discomfort. I also avoided traps, such as moving from reasonable cost real-estate areas to excessive real-estate areas, such as Massachusetts (when I earned my EE degree I had an offer in Massachusetts that I considered but rejected on the basis of real-estate costs). I have avoided the trap of moving to a "one company town" where labor supply and demand conditions favor the one company and disfavor the employees who have few opportunities other than working for the one company and taking what they are givin'. Some of this stuff amounts to "no brainers." I think others can exercise this same sort of forward looking planning and self-sacrifice to improve themselves. It means, however, that you can't always be content to watch Monday Night Football when you would like to. It means managing your career and your livilihood -- which is more than a 40 hour a week job (40 hours on the job, extra hours at home thinking and preparing for the future, managing your career).
Alsatian, if it's really that way, why has house hold income constantly risen of all these years?FYI, glad your a member of IEEE. You can't spell "GEEK" without a "EE".
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
Alsatian, if it's really that way, why has house hold income constantly risen of all these years?FYI, glad your a member of IEEE. You can't spell "GEEK" without a "EE".
My degree in English and minor in Philosophy give me a "get out of geek jail free" card.
I haven't studied the figures and I don't want to invest the time in it. I don't get paid for that, I'ld rather spend my time working making money. I get paid based on my production: more production, more pay.
But whatever the figures are, it won't be the raw numbers that tell the story, it will be the inflation adjusted numbers. Even there, a mere comparison of inflation to wages loses sight of the effect of a progressive income tax. That is, more than a 5% pay increase is needed to track even with a 5% inflation rate, because the progressive tax structure will take a deeper cut as income rises.
I look at school teachers who make $44,000 per year after 20 years of working and having accumulated a masters degree. I'm thinking that does not qualify as affluent in the Dallas, Texas area (where this salary was observed). On the other hand, a 20 year teacher in 1965, I'm guessing, would have been pretty comfortable. But I'm GUESSING. I don't have the figures to prove my point. Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not complaining for myself. I'm happy with how things have gone for me, and I'm not even close to thinking I have optimized my economic opportunities and I certainly was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth.
couldn't be true
