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Old 04-21-2009, 02:38 PM   #1
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Default Waterboarding worked!

If they are going after agents for using waterboard techniques that were legal, when will they go after those critical of waterboarding after the fact, but WHO SUPPORTED IT AT THE TIME IT WAS USED?


CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief



Khalid Sheik Mohammad, a top al Qaeda leader who divulged information -- after being waterboarded -- that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned terrorist attack on Los Angeles. [/align](CNSNews.com) - The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of "enhanced techniques" of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, "Soon, you will know."

According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the "Second Wave"-- planned " "to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles."

KSM was the mastermind of the first "hijacked-airliner" attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001.

After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators. Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah. KSM, Zubaydah, and a third terrorist named Nashiri were the only three persons ever subjected to waterboarding by the CIA. (Additional terrorist detainees were subjected to other "enhanced techniques" that included slapping, sleep deprivation, dietary limitations, and temporary confinement to small spaces -- but not to water-boarding.)

This was because the CIA imposed very tight restrictions on the use of waterboarding. "The "waterboard," which is the most intense of the CIA interrogation techniques, is subject to additional limits," explained the May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo. "It may be used on a High Value Detainee only if the CIA has "credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent"; "substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack"; and "[o]ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit this information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.""

The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice Department"s Office of Legal Counsel.

Before they were subjected to "enhanced techniques" of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.

"In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques," says the Justice Department memo. "Both KSM and Zubaydah had "expressed their belief that the general US population was "weak," lacked resilience, and would be unable to "do what was necessary" to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals." Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, "Soon you will know.""

After he was subjected to the "waterboard" technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

The May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that details what happened in this regard was written by then-Principal Deputy Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury to John A. Rizzo, the senior deputy general counsel for the CIA.

"You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM"once enhanced techniques were employed"led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the "Second Wave," "to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into" a building in Los Angeles," says the memo.

"You have informed us that information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the "Second Wave,"" reads the memo. "More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] " Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali"s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KSM."

A CIA spokesman confirmed to CNSNews.com today that the CIA stands by the factual assertions made here.

In the memo itself, the Justice Department"s Bradbury told the CIA"s Rossi: "Your office has informed us that the CIA believes that "the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qa"ida has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001."
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:18 PM   #2
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

Well, of course it does.

You know there was something so comforting years ago knowing my country had a clendestine group knowing they were behind the scenes taking care of business the only way you can. Clinton totally demolished all of that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:29 PM   #3
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

Water boarding is wrong. I never saw anywhere in the article they said "pretty please".
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:33 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

What makes it wrong, FM? It is unpleasant for sure, but done right, it does no permanent damage to the subject, and their life is never in jeopardy. I know we must have hashed this thru once before, but it's been a while.

Personally, I didn't like waterboarding, and there are only a few circumstances where I would feel comfortable using it. A tight time constraint for a large-scale or sensitive target would be one of them. Looks like KSM sealed his fate by using the word "soon" in a threatening tone.

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Old 04-22-2009, 05:32 AM   #5
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

I think it is wrong too. The subject that is being water boarded feels and thinks they are about to be drowned. I watched a piece on TV where they showed how it is done. The subject istied to a board with hands and feet bound. A hood built like a funnel is placed over their head and the board is turned upside down. Water is then poured into the hood until it covers the subject"s mouth and nose. The subject holds his breath as long as he can then has to take a breath. The board is turned upright at that point and that action prevents the subject from being drowned. It has to be terrorizing to have that technique performed. It is both physical and mental torture and we would not want our captured troops subjected to that treatment. Torture is torture and calling it water boarding is just a way to make it PC. Sure information can be drawn out from doing it but it is still getting information by torture and that is supposed to be banned by the Geneva Convention. The end does not justify the means. A line has to be drawn and IMO was crossed. This was sanctioned by the Bush administration and was wrong.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:08 AM   #6
 
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

The Geneva Convention is not in play here. terrorist did not fight for one Country no flag on there uniforms. how about the reporters heads they cut off I guess that was ok? how about the 3000 people they killed on 9/11/01 just for going to work that was okwhat if it was your son that they were cutting the head off of then what. thats right a candy --- like you wouldn't have son over there.Thats one of thing wrong with this Country these day we have a bunch of candy --- in congress and in charge. take the reports out of ALL war zones and let our men and women do there jobs and come home
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:47 AM   #7
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

right wrong who really cares there no army there under no country just hook up jumper cables to there nuts and be done with it.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:14 AM   #8
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

Have any of you ever experienced water boarding? Our own military men go through it to prepare incase of capture. My couisin, who is an officer in the marines, did it. He explains that boot camp is more of a torture than water boarding. He flat out told me that if waterboarding it torture, then his special forces training was way out of line. He was treated worse during his special forces training than when he was water boarded.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:37 AM   #9
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: burniegoeasily

Have any of you ever experienced water boarding? Our own military men go through it to prepare incase of capture. My couisin, who is an officer in the marines, did it. He explains that boot camp is more of a torture than water boarding. He flat out told me that if waterboarding it torture, then his special forces training was way out of line. He was treated worse during his special forces training than when he was water boarded.
Well no, but I seen a guy in High school getting a swirly in the bathroom. The guy said it was extremely unpleasant. I am apt to believe him.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:56 AM   #10
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Default RE: Waterboarding worked!

A few very simple facts...
1. ) The Geneva convention does not apply to terrorist, they are not any countries military force.
2. ) Water boarding may be considered a torture technique.
3. ) When terrorist kidnap/capture enemies in most cases they behead them and film the execution for all to see.
4. ) Did the use of this technique save American lives? You bet it did.
5. ) Did the use of this technique identify and lead to the capture of other terrorists? Yes it did.
While I agree that the US should not be condoning torture, when compared to the treatment that the terrorists provide there should be no quarter given when the shoe is on the other foot.
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