Thank goodness some Democrats are trying to save us.

burniegoeasily · 03-05-2009, 06:04 AM

Looks like some, in the Democrate party has some since. Some are trying to stop Obama from impossing his Hoovernomics.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/04/treasury-secretary-defends-tax-hikes-wealthy/

thndrchiken · 03-05-2009, 07:33 PM

No I don't see as they are trying to save us, they are finally waking up and listening to what their constituents are saying. They are trying to save their chances at reelection in two years.

Fieldmouse · 03-05-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said tax increases on families making more than $250,000 a year are necessary to make a down payment on health care reform and to limit future budget deficits. But, he said, he was willing to work with lawmakers on proposals they objected to.
"We recognize there are other ways to do this," Geithner told the Finance Committee.

I have another Idea. How about they sign a release form saying, "Don't treat me because I like to gamble" or let's garnish their wages so they pay for their coverage instead of stealing it from me?

Please read the link. These were written over 150 years ago when times we different, or were they?
Please do a google on "legal Plunder". Sorry, for some reason the link is being rejected and I'm done with it. It's a very good read for those who care.

Legal Plunder:
But how is the legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.
Then abolish this law without delay, for it is not only an evil itself, but also it is a fertile source for further evils because it invites reprisals. If such a law-which may be an isolated case-is not abolished immediately, it will spread, multiply, and develop into a system.
The person who profits from this law will complain bitterly, defending his acquired rights. He will claim that the state is obligated to protect and encourage his particular industry; that this procedure enriches the state because the protected industry is thus able to spend more and to pay higher wages to the poor workingmen.
Do not listen to this sophistry by vested interests. The acceptance of these arguments will build legal plunder into a whole system. In fact, this has already occurred. The present day delusion is an attempt to enrich everyone at the expense of everyone else; to make plunder universal under the pretense of organizing it.

Legal Plunder has Many Names
Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, minimum wages, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on, and so on. All these plans as a whole-with their common aim of legal plunder-constitute socialism.
Now, since under this definition socialism is a body of doctrine, what attack can be made against it other than a war of doctrine? If you find this socialistic doctrine to be false, absurd, and evil, then refute it. And the more false, the more absurd, and the more evil it is, the easier it will be to refute. Above all, if you wish to be strong, begin by rooting out every particle of socialism that may have crept into your legislation. This will be no light task.

kevin1 · 03-06-2009, 07:23 AM

I don't grasp why Obama thinks our health care system requires "reform", it's only real problem is excessive cost. Health care is not a right, it's a privelege you earn by being a contributing member to society, or one of it's wards. If you're a ward you have no expectation of outstanding care, you're not paying for it, the conributing members are. If you don't have access to health care it's because you haven't made the effort to secure it for yourself, it's out there if you want it. "Affordable" health care is an oxymoron, if it's cheap it probably isn't good.

burniegoeasily · 03-06-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: thndrchiken

No I don't see as they are trying to save us, they are finally waking up and listening to what their constituents are saying. They are trying to save their chances at reelection in two years.

Very true. You are more correct with that assumption than I.

bobcats40 · 03-06-2009, 08:26 AM

It has always ticked me off that there is so many individuals in this Country that whine and complain about other people being better off than them. There are so many people today that believe they are owed something. Most people that have good paying jobs or are financially secure at one point in their lives had to make sacrifices to get there. No one should be penalized for being successful and have to pay for someone that has no drive and just wants handouts. Government run health care will be a huge mistake and I agree with Kevin that health care is not a right but a privilege that has to be bought and paid for. My wife has worked in several major hospitals and most individuals that do not have heath care are illegal immigrants and homeless. Are these the individuals I have to pay for? While I agree that we need more affordable health care, that will never happen as long as hospitals are forced to treat and care for the huge amount of illegal"™s that flood the health care industry.

burniegoeasily · 03-06-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: bobcats40

It has always ticked me off that there is so many individuals in this Country that whine and complain about other people being better off than them. There are so many people today that believe they are owed something. Most people that have good paying jobs or are financially secure at one point in their lives had to make sacrifices to get there. No one should be penalized for being successful and have to pay for someone that has no drive and just wants handouts. Government run health care will be a huge mistake and I agree with Kevin that health care is not a right but a privilege that has to be bought and paid for. My wife has worked in several major hospitals and most individuals that do not have heath care are illegal immigrants and homeless. Are these the individuals I have to pay for? While I agree that we need more affordable health care, that will never happen as long as hospitals are forced to treat and care for the huge amount of illegal"™s that flood the health care industry.

I agree. I came from dirt poor. I got sick of it. I was 1 of 5 kids raised by a single mother with not skills. I saw what it was like to be poor and refused to stay that way. I developed my own future. I paied my own way throught college and worked all the time. I could have easily played the victum card and asked for my handout, but I didnt. I worked hard to get my degreeswhichimproved my life 100 fold. It hard for me to buy the notion of being a victum of your circumstance. I now run a science dept.. and am very active in helping kids get into college. There is no reason why a kid, who wants to go to college, can"™t. The poorer you are, the more financial assistance you can get. Besides, there are tons of scholarships out there. I help kids get them every spring. But Obama wants us to help criple those who are suffering by giving them a crutch to lean on. Which in turn, perpetuates the cycle. Kids see the parents getting handouts, so why not them???? What is the incentive to work, when you get the minimum without doing anything?

thndrchiken · 03-06-2009, 06:53 PM

I would say that the reform in the health care system that should be implemented is:
1. ) Government mandating on what medical procedures cost.
2. ) Government mandating on what prescription drugs cost.
3. ) Government mandating caps on malpractice awards.
4. ) Government oversight on the insurance industry to include expedited appeals process to ensure that required treatment is received before it is too late for the patient.

# 4 should be covered under the consumer bill of rights. The reason that healthcare has gotten so expensive comes in several parts:

1. ) Exhorbitant malpractice awards driving up doctor and hospital insurance rates.
2. ) Corporate greed, the pharmaceutical companies charge the US market on average approximately 200-300 % more than the rest of the world even though approximately 80% of the research dollars come from the US.
3. ) Dead beats that skip out on their bills because they have no insurance. Now I understand that sometimes hard times hit and you lose coverage, etc. If that's the case then perhaps the Government should step in and support lower cost options than Cobra.

While these things are common sense I doubt that it will happen because politics as usual will prevent any meaningful reform. Just as a single payer system will produce only one result, a decline in healthcare in general. It is a fact that just about every country that has a single payer system that it doesn't work the way it was intended to, and who suffers, it sure isn't the politicians, they get all the care they need. Let the Government enact these measures and for sure Obamalamadingdong won't have a leg to stand on with the "Every 30 seconds someone is declaring bankruptcy due to healthcare costs." Even though that in itself is a lie.