wall street paid out 18 billion dollars in bonuses in 08. to put it in perspective, that's the 6th largest amount in wall street history. that's more money than is in the proposed stimulus package for mass transit.
this kind of unbridled greed, avarice, and stupidity is free market capitalism at its worst (although it's not at all clear whether or not these bonuses were in anyway funded or under-written by the taxpayer bail-out of wall street. if so, it's not exactly pure "free market" capitalism).
it's also stupid and short-sighted. the kind of anger that this activity engenders is precisely the sort of catalyst required to fuel the conversion from a mostly market-based economy to a pure government- directed economy. In the 30's, FDR came within a whisker of nationalizing all the banks. i fear before long we will be staring into that abyss as well.
the commissar may shortly control the means of production, my comrades.
To Obama's credit he did come down pretty hard on the Wall St. fat cats and their bonuses yesterday. But at the same time he has a plan to feed more taxpayer funds into their greedy money eating machines.The government isnot loaning money to the smaller banks: The smaller banksare the ones who fuel the economy. Too bad they have no money to loan.The Wall St. banks have the money and they are hoarding it in order to expand their empires.
It truly does look like the Bank of The United States will be resurrected 175 years after having beenput to death by president Andrew Jackson. Wonder which Wall St. fat cat will replace Czar Nicholas Biddle.
Without FDR, we would not have the SEC. I do agree that the SEC is not doing the job they are designed to do, mostly because the political power of the ones being regulated. I can't even imagine what things would be like without entities like the SEC. From what we have seen occur as of late, I think we need alot more regulation on these banks and traders and strictly enforced. FDR was very smart with his ideas to save ourselves from ourselves. Wich is why SS was another great idea.
Corporate greed, give me a break. Even in your very own post you have:
Quote:
(although it's not at all clear whether or not these bonuses were in anyway funded or under-written by the taxpayer bail-out of wall street.
While you all get all worked up about people making a living in a not so free capital market with over 70,000 pages of regulations on it's back, I here nothing about the Government greed. That is truely how the road to socialism is paved. These folks in DC love more and morepower because it comes with better perks then in the private sector. While you get all worked up about corporate CEO's taking delivery of their jets which have been on order for years and millions have already been spent, silence comes out when Polosi needed a 737 to carry her back and forth to San Fran. While I here outrage about Merril Lynch redesigning the corporate office, silence comes out when the same designer is redoing the White House in these tough economic times. When I read several threads on this mortgage crisis attempting to point fingers at "greedy" wallstreet, I can still look to our Government and see two people still heading their Banking Committees.Both got unbelievable sweetheart deals on their private finances while working on regulations for the very same institution. Both Conrad and Dodd have yet to explain or face an investigation into this matter. Furthermore, Dodd said over 6 months ago, he would release all his documents. All I can say in words from Caddy Shack"Well, I'm waiting". I only wish it could end with those two but it doesn't. We have Barney Fag, I'm sorry Barney Frank, who was boyfriend and boyfriend with the government policy individual from Fannie Mae (It may have been freddie) all the while he's gettingregulations blocked in committee and then running for any camera he can find saying "there isn't any mortage crisis loooming". That should have been enough for him not to get re-elected but why am I surprisedhe was? Perhaps, it's because he was running amale prostitution ring out of his basement in DC. Oh, I'm sorry, it was his boyfriend who was doing it, he knew nothing about it. Never occured to him to ask his boyfriend exactly why he was fixing all the parking tickets. Does it stop there? No we have Conyers still all worked up with Carl Rove, yet noone is worked up about him when he uses his staff for babby sitting, chauffeuring, tutoring and basic house errands. What about Charlie Rangle and his tax issues, parking garage abuses, and get this, earmarks in exchange for campaign donations and getting his name on buildings. I wish I could end now but look at this era of change. Have to hand it to Obama. Instead of getting people with unblemished records to serve around him. He figures whyallow the power of his office corrupt these people and screw up clean records. Lets get people with major issues alrerady on their records so anything they do we can just say, thats not so bad. Geitner the tax cheat in charge of the IRS, Hilary and her side kick in charge at the state department. Should help out real well when it comes to collecting more overseas donations. Holder, who's own firm represents 17 terrorists sitting in Gitmo and is neck deep in the pardons for already convicted terrorists and the number 2 guy on the FBI most wanted list. I feel safe now, don't you?
Istill have more information but I'm tired of writing ab out it. Nopeboysda, I guess your right, it's the corporate greed taking us to socialism.
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
I think you are both right. Neither has the good of the people in mind.
I couldn't disagree more James. Those corporate folks have absolutely no power over you. For every bad CEO there are thousands of good ones. The beauty of our system is that they must earn your trust and respect before you turn your money over to them. All to often people don't do the due dilligence and investigate who and where they invest their money in because we have big daddy government doing that for we don't, we?
It's government that has all of the control. It's government that lonely low level clerk that can ruin you with a keystroke. It's government that can take you, your home, your money by force at gunpoint and you have very little options. That breeds greed and corruption, not some CEO who can't force you to do anything.
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
I think you are both right. Neither has the good of the people in mind.
The fat cat bankers and those political hacks from both party's who are in their pockets could care less about the people of this country. Most letters to congressmen/women are answered by noncommital gobblygook regardless of the subject of the inquiry.
We are in this mess because the regulatoryfabric was tornto shreds by politicians who were in someones pockets. What little regulatory authority was left was not enforced by congress or the Bush white house.
Corporate greed, give me a break. Even in your very own post you have:
Quote:
(although it's not at all clear whether or not these bonuses were in anyway funded or under-written by the taxpayer bail-out of wall street.
While you all get all worked up about people making a living in a not so free capital market with over 70,000 pages of regulations on it's back, I here nothing about the Government greed. That is truely how the road to socialism is paved. These folks in DC love more and morepower because it comes with better perks then in the private sector. While you get all worked up about corporate CEO's taking delivery of their jets which have been on order for years and millions have already been spent, silence comes out when Polosi needed a 737 to carry her back and forth to San Fran. While I here outrage about Merril Lynch redesigning the corporate office, silence comes out when the same designer is redoing the White House in these tough economic times. When I read several threads on this mortgage crisis attempting to point fingers at "greedy" wallstreet, I can still look to our Government and see two people still heading their Banking Committees.Both got unbelievable sweetheart deals on their private finances while working on regulations for the very same institution. Both Conrad and Dodd have yet to explain or face an investigation into this matter. Furthermore, Dodd said over 6 months ago, he would release all his documents. All I can say in words from Caddy Shack"Well, I'm waiting". I only wish it could end with those two but it doesn't. We have Barney Fag, I'm sorry Barney Frank, who was boyfriend and boyfriend with the government policy individual from Fannie Mae (It may have been freddie) all the while he's gettingregulations blocked in committee and then running for any camera he can find saying "there isn't any mortage crisis loooming". That should have been enough for him not to get re-elected but why am I surprisedhe was? Perhaps, it's because he was running amale prostitution ring out of his basement in DC. Oh, I'm sorry, it was his boyfriend who was doing it, he knew nothing about it. Never occured to him to ask his boyfriend exactly why he was fixing all the parking tickets. Does it stop there? No we have Conyers still all worked up with Carl Rove, yet noone is worked up about him when he uses his staff for babby sitting, chauffeuring, tutoring and basic house errands. What about Charlie Rangle and his tax issues, parking garage abuses, and get this, earmarks in exchange for campaign donations and getting his name on buildings. I wish I could end now but look at this era of change. Have to hand it to Obama. Instead of getting people with unblemished records to serve around him. He figures whyallow the power of his office corrupt these people and screw up clean records. Lets get people with major issues alrerady on their records so anything they do we can just say, thats not so bad. Geitner the tax cheat in charge of the IRS, Hilary and her side kick in charge at the state department. Should help out real well when it comes to collecting more overseas donations. Holder, who's own firm represents 17 terrorists sitting in Gitmo and is neck deep in the pardons for already convicted terrorists and the number 2 guy on the FBI most wanted list. I feel safe now, don't you?
Istill have more information but I'm tired of writing ab out it. Nopeboysda, I guess your right, it's the corporate greed taking us to socialism.
in yourunqualifiedlove of capitalism, you miss my point.
political excesses are indeed an affront to our democracy. you cite some wonderful examples that, of course, have nothing to do with my point.
unbridled corporate greed, as evidenced by those bonuses (sixth highest amount in history...does that mean this was wall street's sixth best year in history?) fuels unthinking public anger, which provides empire-building politicians the bully pulpit and tools they need to move us further down the road to a completely government controlled economy.
in yourunqualifiedlove of capitalism, you miss my point.
political excesses are indeed an affront to our democracy. you cite some wonderful examples that, of course, have nothing to do with my point.
unbridled corporate greed, as evidenced by those bonuses (sixth highest amount in history...does that mean this was wall street's sixth best year in history?) fuels unthinking public anger, which provides empire-building politicians the bully pulpit and tools they need to move us further down the road to a completely government controlled economy.
Horsehockey, I argue it's one of the best years for them on Walls Street. The job of those execs is to get people to invest in their institutions. So far they've gotten well over 350 billion in investment and stand to receive another 350 billion before the next round of investment. What worries me is the greed on capital hill that will have more unbriddle power over our institutions. They will have the pwoer to pick and choose what industry gets loans for expansion and which one doesn't. If thet get nationalized, they will know everyone's banking habits. That real greed and corruption at play.
__________________
John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
I couldn't disagree more James. Those corporate folks have absolutely no power over you. For every bad CEO there are thousands of good ones. The beauty of our system is that they must earn your trust and respect before you turn your money over to them. All to often people don't do the due dilligence and investigate who and where they invest their money in because we have big daddy government doing that for we don't, we?
It's government that has all of the control. It's government that lonely low level clerk that can ruin you with a keystroke. It's government that can take you, your home, your money by force at gunpoint and you have very little options. That breeds greed and corruption, not some CEO who can't force you to do anything.
[/quote]
Exactly,
And I might add that it is government that has bamboozled a majority of the country that they are the good guys, and that wealth and prosperity comes from them. This is opposite of the truth, but people are sure buying into the lie.
Show me somebody who is waiting for the government to take care of them, and I'll show you a poor, unhappy, covetous, neutered American who is always complaining about what somebody else has.
To me, that is a pitiful way to live.
You are right FM. There are thousands of good CEOs. And I personally want the CEO of my company compensated for every bit that he is worth. The cost for having a bad one is way morethan what he would ever be paid.
I don't want a CEO at a discount. There is too much at stake.
C. Davis
__________________ Am I greedy because I don't want to give you what is mine?
or
Are you greedy because you want to take what is not yours?
the road to socialism
Does it stop there? No we have Conyers still all worked up with Carl Rove, yet noone is worked up about him when he uses his staff for babby sitting, chauffeuring, tutoring and basic house errands. What about Charlie Rangle and his tax issues, parking garage abuses, and get this, earmarks in exchange for campaign donations and getting his name on buildings. I wish I could end now but look at this era of change. Have to hand it to Obama. Instead of getting people with unblemished records to serve around him. He figures whyallow the power of his office corrupt these people and screw up clean records. Lets get people with major issues alrerady on their records so anything they do we can just say, thats not so bad. Geitner the tax cheat in charge of the IRS, Hilary and her side kick in charge at the state department. Should help out real well when it comes to collecting more overseas donations. Holder, who's own firm represents 17 terrorists sitting in Gitmo and is neck deep in the pardons for already convicted terrorists and the number 2 guy on the FBI most wanted list. I feel safe now, don't you?
