Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,185
Obama and Infrastructure jobs
Just a thought. If we pump billions into infrastructure to create jobs, what happens when the jobs are done? When FDR did it with his WPA projects, the results did not pull us out of the depression, the War did. We never really saw the results because of the war. Some have said FDR helped prolong the depression. So what do you think will come of this? Are we going to see things being built that do not merit the time or money? What is shovel ready? To me, shovel ready means; State government, make up projects, with inflated price tags, to reap the benefits of this welfare.
This is how I see it; We are much more capable of building at a much faster rate than ever before. So what happens when the money and projects play out? I could stimulate the economy by letting the kid down the street mow my lawn. I created a job, stimulated the economy, but once the job is done, I just caused unemployment again. What do you all think?
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
If the road/bridge projects go the way they usually do around here, we won't have to worry about the projects finishing up and putting those workers back on unemployment for a good 15-20 years.
To me, shovel ready means; State government, make up projects, with inflated price tags, to reap the benefits of this welfare.
I think that depends. as in all things, the devil is in the details.
i can tell you thatour nation's infrastructure is collapsing, particularly bridges and that infrastructure that supports water and sewer usage. that fact has been recognized, discussed and lamented for at least a decade. for a variety of debatable reasons, all levels of government have abrogated this very core responsibility for years in favor of other priorities. if these needs are addressed, we could see some good come out of it. similarly, the southern and northern border secure projects require an extraordinary amount of infrastructure funding to complete that might be funded byof this package. most would agree that's a good thing. even if the jobs dry up afterwards, we absolutely need to deal with these issues.
unfortunately, i have also seen "shovel ready" projects discussed like ampitheatres, minor league hockey arenas, etc. to address those issuesat the expense ofdealing with our core infrastructure would be a travesty.
When FDR did it with his WPA projects, the results did not pull us out of the depression, the War did.
Never mind that those jobs allowed millions of workers to support themselves and their families. It is not like the US got nothing for its money. We were left with a vastly improved highway system. The CCC planted hundreds of millions of trees, improved the infrastructure of US national forests and parks,and they completed erosion control projets on private and public land.
Hey boysda, please name me the last bridge calapse due to poor funding? Perhaps if the government choose not to divert most of the road taxes to social programs instead of spending the proceeds on their intended purpose you might change your mind.
Shovel ready projects are already funded. They don't become shovel ready projects until the money is set aside and all of the surveys, planning, and bidding is out of the way. This is more smoke and mirrors on the part of the government that is out of control with it's spending. What they are doing is back dooring a bail out for the states. This will free up money for them to continue their spending spree which I might add has increased this last year not decreased eventhough the money isn't coming into their pockets.
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[blockquote]quote:
When FDR did it with his WPA projects, the results did not pull us out of the depression, the War did. [/blockquote]
Never mind that those jobs allowed millions of workers to support themselves and their families. It is not like the US got nothing for its money. We were left with a vastly improved highway system. The CCC planted hundreds of millions of trees, improved the infrastructure of US national forests and parks,and they completed erosion control projets on private and public land.
Man am I glad our government was able to pick and choose who they were going to help out back then. Never mind the folks who did starve, lost everythingand weren't allowed to feed their families because of bad government policies. Instead of getting out of the way and allowing the economy to recover, FDR decided to break his campaign promise of lowering taxes and slapped a major increase of taxes on the american public. He also decided which pet projects were good for us because we the people didn't know any better. Yes, extending the depression into lasting a decade was very good for us.
If that example of how the government isn't capable of pulling the economy out of the ditch perhaps a look into ***ans experiment would be a better example.
Title: Learning from ***an: Infrastructure Spending Won't Boost the Economy
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,185
RE: Obama and Infrastructure jobs
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ORIGINAL: Arthur P
If the road/bridge projects go the way they usually do around here, we won't have to worry about the projects finishing up and putting those workers back on unemployment for a good 15-20 years.
Very true. I hate driving in the DFW area. Heck, it took 500 years for them to finish the work on 380 from Denton to McKinney.
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
The question is how is the language translated into actualities. I assume the actuality is (1) the federal government sends money to the state government designated for a specific purpose (e.g., bridge maintenance), (2) the state government identifies bridge maintenance projects and a budget for the projects, (3) the state asks for construction proposals for the projects, based on the budgets, (4) a contractor submits a bid and wins the project, and (5) the contractor hires personnel and pays wages -- thereby creating new jobs -- with the money that flowed from the federal government. Similarly with other infrastructure projects. I suppose, although I am not certain, that there is precedent for the federal government shedding federal money to states for roads, sewers, water, schools.
One other thing I have heard and am disturbed by is some indication that the federal government (Obama) is contemplating restoring our electrical power infrastructure. Unlike roads, sewers, water, and schools -- which are overwhelmingly public owned and operated (municipalities largely) -- the electrical power infrastructure is overwhelmingly privately owned and operated. I don't think the federal government has any business getting into electrical power infrastructure projects in any capacity. My expectation is that IF there is any shortcoming in our electrical power system the solution is simply to enable the electrical operating companies to do one of (1) build new power plants in appropriate areas to relieve difficulties of transmission (expecting electrical operating companies to satisfy great increases in electrical demand in New York City and refusing to approve building increased generating capacity proximate to New York City is brain dead), (2) build new power transportation networks. My expectation is that liberal dominated east coast politics that oppose any power company new construction and the NIMBY mind set are largely to blame for any electrical power infrastructure problems. We don't need the federal government to throw money at these guys -- we need them to be permitted to deploy sound engineering plans to solve obvious and rudimentary problems. Yes, there are some rural electrical cooperatives which could be viewed as publically owned electrical infrastructure, but this infrastructure is overwhelmingly dwarfed, I imagine, by the private infrastructure. A possible oversight in this view is the large hydroelectric facilities of the TVA and the western states. I'm assuming that somehow these facilities are, notwithstanding the federally sponsored dam construction, operated by private electrical operating companies -- perhaps leasing the generating equipment or leasing a concession to operate their own generating equipment within the context of the federally constructed dams -- but I don't know for sure.
FM conveniently forgot that 3.5 years of the depression were on the watch of that fine guy Herbert Hoover. Hoover did not know whether to crap or go blind so he did nothing.Hoover just kept waiting for the percolater to get going.
FM conveniently forgot that 3.5 years of the depression were on the watch of that fine guy Herbert Hoover. Hoover did not know whether to crap or go blind so he did nothing.Hoover just kept waiting for the percolater to get going.
Excuse me falcon. Who forgeting what? It seems to me your forgetting the topic of the thread and in an attempt to change the subject. You just got done praising the actions of FDR because he chose to pick and choose who he was going to help out and there by prolonging the great deppression for years to come.For that matter, truely he could be blamed for the problems we have today. While your singing his praise for breaking campaign promises and helping out a select few, I'm busy proving Dr Williams point that the problem is congress and our government. In the 30's congress granted rights to some people while at the very same time denied those same rights to others and you cheer that on. While you would have problems with me holding some rich couple up at gun point and giving their money to a homeless person, you have no problem with our government doing that very thing. While your all giddy with the fact that few were able to have work, my great grandparents lost everything because renters were allowed to live rent free while landlords still had to pay their bills.
Once again, you continue to prove my point that independents have no core beliefs.
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John Adams “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.”
Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'
"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
Obama and Infrastructure jobs
