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Old 11-17-2008, 09:30 PM   #1
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Default Government run healthcare, get ready Dems

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=amVFPFBe40Ak&refer=e xclusive

Cancer Patients Lose Shot at Longer Life in U.K. Cuts (Update1)

By David Altaner and Bruce Rule

[/align][/align][/align]Nov. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Jack Rosser's doctor says taking Pfizer Inc.'s Sutent cancer drug may keep him alive long enough to see his 1-year-old daughter, Emma, enter primary school. The U.K.'s National Health Service says that's not worth the expense.
Rosser, 57, was told the cost of Sutent, 3,140 pounds ($4,650) per treatment for his advanced kidney cancer, was too high for the NHS -- the government agency that funds the nation's health care. The resident of the town of Kingswood, in southwest England, has appealed the decision twice, and next month may find out if his second plea is successful.
``It's immoral,'' Rosser's wife, Jenny, said. ``They are sentencing him to die.''
The NHS, which provides health care to all Britons and is funded by tax revenue, is spending about 100 billion pounds this fiscal year, or more than double what it spent a decade ago, as the cost of treatments increase and the population ages. The higher costs are forcing the NHS to choose between buying expensive drugs for terminal patients and providing more services for a wider number of people.
About 800 of 3,000 cancer patients lose their appeals for regulator-approved drugs each year because of cost, Canterbury- based charity Rarer Cancers Forum said. The U.K. is considering whether to make permanent a preliminary ruling that four medicines, including Sutent, are too expensive to be part of the government-funded treatment of advanced kidney cancer.
`It's Outrageous'
``It's outrageous,'' said Kate Spall, a full-time activist who has helped about 100 patients appeal NHS denials of cancer medicines. ``We are not asking for anything new or exciting or novel. We are asking for what the rest of the western world is getting.''
To help curb expenses, the government created the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, known as NICE, in 1999 to review medicines and recommend whether the NHS should fund them.
``There is a view that all treatments should be available. Unfortunately, that's not possible,'' said Peter Littlejohns, NICE's clinical and public health director. ``There is a limited pot of money.''
He said the four cancer drugs provide a ``marginal benefit at quite often an extreme cost'' and that the agency had to keep in mind that funds spent on the medicines could be used elsewhere to help others at a greater value. ``Those are the hidden patients, the ones who benefit from the things the NHS does spend money on,'' Littlejohns said.
NICE Review
NICE is reviewing its Aug. 7 preliminary recommendation that Sutent, Roche Holding AG and Genentech Inc.'s Avastin, Bayer AG and Onyx Pharmaceuticals Inc.'s Nexavar, and Wyeth's Torisel shouldn't be funded in light of their cost of 20,000 pounds to 39,000 pounds a year per patient. All four medicines have been approved by European and U.S. regulators and are sold in other countries as well. A final ruling is expected in March.
While a drug is under review, the decision whether to pay for a therapy falls to the NHS's 156 local organizations, called trusts.
Of the 3,000 applications for exceptional funding for cancer patients a year, the most-requested drug was Sutent, said the Rarer Cancers Forum, which focuses on cancer cases that fall outside the more common ones such as colon, breast, lung and prostate.
Sutent, which stops cancer cells from dividing and chokes off a tumor's blood supply, was first approved for European use in July 2006. Kidney cancer sufferers taking the drug had a median survival rate of 26.4 months, according to a study presented at the American Society of Clinical Oncology in May.
Five Years to Live
New York-based Pfizer provided NICE with Sutent cancer- survival data that were released after its review began to try to persuade the agency to reverse its decision, and has offered to make the first treatment free, company spokeswoman Emily Bone said.
On Nov. 4, the government proposed giving NICE more flexibility in approving higher-cost drugs and allowing patients to buy the medicines themselves without losing access to government-funded health care. Final recommendations on the proposals aren't due until early next year and Rosser can't wait that long for his medicine, Spall said.
Rosser, of Kingswood, England, was diagnosed with cancer four days after Emma was born in July 2007. After operations in August and March to remove a kidney, adrenal glands and bone tumors, he was told he might live two to five years. In July, he was told by doctors that Sutent would help, but the South Gloucestershire Primary Care Trust said it wouldn't pay for the treatment.
`Very Expensive'
``I read the letter and I burst into tears,'' said Rosser, who was forced to retire from his air-conditioning and sheet- metal company because of the illness.
South Gloucestershire, the trust that includes Rosser's home, accepts applications for Sutent funding only for exceptional cases, said Ann Jarvis, director of commissioning at the trust, in an e-mail. ``Unfortunately for very expensive drugs, if they are proven to only provide a small benefit we have to prioritize other treatments.''
The trust plans to review its Sutent policy at a meeting next month, spokeswoman Sue Pratt said today.
Kidney cancer patient Kathleen Devonport, a 65-year-old retired factory worker, called it ``heartbreaking'' to have to beg her local health officials to provide her with Sutent. The County Durham Primary Care Trust, in northern England, initially turned her down in March 2007, then agreed to supply the Sutent seven months later only after she responded to a cheaper medicine paid for by an anonymous donation.
Offer Vetoed
Jenny Rosser, 41, said she is looking into getting her husband into a clinical trial for Sutent, but so far she has been told that his cancer would need to advance further to qualify.
Meanwhile, he is surviving on painkillers coupled with steroids for inflammation after vetoing his wife's offer of selling the house to pay for his treatments. In late October, he had another operation to remove growths on his spine and neck.
Jenny Rosser said the policies seem aimed more at saving cash than treating people.
``It seems like a money-saving exercise,'' she said. ``If a patient dies, tough.''
To contact the reporter on this story: Bruce Rule in London at brule1@bloomberg.net; David Altaner in London at daltaner@bloomberg.net
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:45 PM   #2
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Default RE: Government run healthcare, get ready Dems

Ya gotta love it FM! Never in our history has there been a problem so big that government couldnt make it bigger!!
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:43 AM   #3
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The NHS, which provides health care to all Britons and is funded by tax revenue, is spending about 100 billion pounds this fiscal year, or more than double what it spent a decade ago, as the cost of treatments increase and the population ages.
Their cost has risen slower than ours in the same time period.

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The higher costs are forcing the NHS to choose between buying expensive drugs for terminal patients and providing more services for a wider number of people.
They cover all Britons. Most Americans are covered if someone else pays for it; barring that, they have to decide between food and medicine. All Brits are covered, not all Americans are covered. Actually here are some fun facts to know and tell during these wonderful "comparative" conversations about the successes of our current system...

As of FIVE years ago...45 million Americans had no health insurance at all. Think that's a lie? Think someone is exaggerating? That someone would be the census bureau reporting 2003 in 2004.

As of the above time frame, there were nearly 150 uninsured Americans for each American physician. (Bureau of Labor Stats, May 2003) Gee, I wonder who will eat those costs?

Great Britain would be close to completely uninsured if it had 45 million uninsured citizens.

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Although the number of uninsured dropped from 1998 to 2000, that number has risen again with the downturn in the economy to 41.2 million.
12% of all children in U.S. under age 18 "“ 9.2 million children "“ had no health insurance in 2000-2001.
Another lie, I'm sure you're thinking. But then you'd have to challenge the National Institutes of Health on that one...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/nichsr/edu/healthecon/02_he_06.html

If private health insurance is so successful in America, why does it account for only 34% of health care dollars? The rest is coming from taxpayers currently and out of pocket costs.

I know, it must be another lie by those with some type of agenda, right? Lol, sorry...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/nichsr/edu/healthecon/02_he_07.html

In 1960 the per capita costs for health care were $143.00. In 2000 it was $4637.00. I guess the present system is working great, eh? Fewer people covered each year (which by default implements the cruelest form of rationing...none) and higher costs each year.

Source...go to the link directly above and hit "next page"...where you will also find that 95% of our aged population was covered. Hmmm, 12 per cent of kids are not covered under the private system, but 95% of our aged were...95% is 39 MILLION Americans as of 2000. If that doesn't beg the question as to which system provides the broadast range of coverage, I don't know what does. Medicare has serious gaps in coverage. Being uninsured is to live within nothing but a gap.

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Public funding has generally increased over the long term from roughly 25% in 1960 to 45.2% in 2000. This increase, especially since 1965, is largely a result of greater federal expenditures and much significant rise in federal spending is accounted for by the Medicare and Medicaid Programs.
The trend here is the reverse of that for private funding.

Same source as above.

Now think about what we are witnessing... Private funding is declining. American business is finding it cannot compete with foreign companies and still provide "free" health care to its workers. Doubt that? Want proof? Check out GM's cost per worker and see how it has affected their bottom line over time. Don't think it can happen to your employer? Really? Can you be that short-sighted? But of course, it is your "right" to seek an employer with benefits. It is your right to presume that somehow the employer will pay what you simply could not pay on your own if you had to...and during the first major economic downturn, you would probably do what the employers are doing...going financially belly up or...becoming one the uninsureds who relies on the rest of us to pay your freight.

We have a truly distorted form of a public plan right now. We force the uninsureds to essentially beg, borrow, and steal their care from others. The public sector pays the lion's share of the costs...right now. Except we have those who are granted the option to try to skate out of paying their own costs in a direct fashion...and we wonder what happened to GM et al?

Is the current system working? Lol, yea, you could argue that. I maintain that doing so is like arguing that a one-armed man could hang wallpaper. I mean, it could happen, right? It would take longer, cost more, and it would look pretty stupid when the job was done, but there would be some paper on the wall, right?

Clearly, health care in America is something that Americans will properly fund ONLY when they are forced to do so. Otherwise, we can sit back and watch entire sectors of our economy become less competitive and finally go broke...while drug companies and hospitals pop up on every corner. Gee, what's wrong with this picture?
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:49 AM   #4
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Default RE: Government run healthcare, get ready Dems

I feel social medicine will never work. Obama has already hinted that it will be one of the promises he will not be able to provide in his first 4 years. If he does impose it, he will have to raise every tax there is. Ive got buddies in Canada that come here for services because the social medicine there sucks. Had a buddy who could not walk for over a year. He needed a simple scope to clean up some catilage in his knee. He had a year and a half wait to get the surgery. Had to wait six months for an MRI. Guess what, he bit the bullet and drove to America to get it done.


Also, Clinton would have died if he was under the same health care his wife was pushing. He said it himself after he had his heart surgery. Or better look at how well social medicine works, look at the lovely smiles the Brits have.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:01 AM   #5
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I feel social medicine will never work.
Read the above. Only 34% of our present system is "non-socialized" at present.

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...look at the lovely smiles the Brits have.
They are an ugly bunch.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:27 AM   #6
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They cover all Britons.
No they don't. They refused medical treatment for a foot operation because a guy smoked.

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As of FIVE years ago...45 million Americans had no health insurance at all. Think that's a lie? Think someone is exaggerating? That someone would be the census bureau reporting 2003 in 2004.
Yes, it's not only Americans in the study. There are illegals also. Also that study includes anyone who went without for one day, not the entire year. Furthermore, it doesn't show how many who choose to have no medical coverage.

So VC, Obama claims he is going to provide low affordable healthcare to everyone. What is affordable? If people choose to buy a new car instead of buying healthcare for their family, what are we to do? Force them into the system? Steal it out of their paychecks?
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Now think about what we are witnessing... Private funding is declining. American business is finding it cannot compete with foreign companies and still provide "free" health care to its workers. Doubt that? Want proof?
Yeah I do.
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Check out GM's cost per worker and see how it has affected their bottom line over time.
How come Toyota and other manufactures are having no problem providing healthcare for employees? GM isn't having problems with current employees, it's the retired ones who don't deserve healthcare bennies. You can't pay for someone not producing for you.
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But of course, it is your "right" to seek an employer with benefits.
Never said it was my right. It's part of my compensation package that I demand in in echange for my services. They could tomorrow end it and I have a choice to move on. Simple as that. I also have a who list of demands in order for me to work for someone. Stock option, car allowance, gas card, home office.... Get the picture?
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:37 AM   #7
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ORIGINAL: vc1111

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I feel social medicine will never work.
Read the above. Only 34% of our present system is "non-socialized" at present.

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...look at the lovely smiles the Brits have.
They are an ugly bunch.
True, but can we fit the bill for the that 34%. Add that to all the other social programs Obama has proposed. That is where I was coming from about not being able to do it.

Don't get me wrong, Id love to have affordable health care, but I dont want to get a discount coverage at the expense of treatment. You pay for quality.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:04 AM   #8
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You pay for quality.
And each should pay his or her own fair share. As it stands now, some have "quality" and some have nothing but what they can be, borrow, or steal from others.

We will see change here. It will be forced and that is the shame of the matter. Recent history has shown that we will do nothing until the crisis reaches critical mass.

If I get time, I'll do the research to show what health care benefits for employees represented in the cost of each unit sold for GM vehicles.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:07 AM   #9
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If I get time, I'll do the research to show what health care benefits for employees represented in the cost of each unit sold for GM vehicles.
They do but it's the retired workers. Once again, how come Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Hundai and others have no problem providing healthcare for their employees?
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:08 AM   #10
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Default RE: Government run healthcare, get ready Dems

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ORIGINAL: vc1111

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You pay for quality.
And each should pay his or her own fair share. As it stands now, some have "quality" and some have nothing but what they can be, borrow, or steal from others.

We will see change here. It will be forced and that is the shame of the matter. Recent history has shown that we will do nothing until the crisis reaches critical mass.

If I get time, I'll do the research to show what health care benefits for employees represented in the cost of each unit sold for GM vehicles.
Now the question is raised, is healthcare a right or a privilage?

As for the cost per unit for health care add to a vehicle was on the news last night, i cannot remember the cost.[:@] But it also involved union fees as well, if I remember right.
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