Palin's "Patriotism"

[wahoohunter]

Everyone is so against taxes and everything, Palin continuing criticizing Biden for saying that paying taxes is patriotic, but wait, what exactly does that entail about her."No one said it better than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: "œI like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."�"

Palin"™s Kind of Patriotism

Criticizing Sarah Palin is truly shooting fish in a barrel. But given the huge attention she is getting, you can"™t just ignore what she has to say. And there was one thing she said in the debate with Joe Biden that really sticks in my craw. It was when she turned to Biden and declared: "œYou said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that"™s not patriotic."�
What an awful statement. Palin defended the government"™s $700 billion rescue plan. She defended the surge in Iraq, where her own son is now serving. She defended sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet, at the same time, she declared that Americans who pay their fair share of taxes to support all those government-led endeavors should not be considered patriotic.


I only wish she had been asked: "œGovernor Palin, if paying taxes is not considered patriotic in your neighborhood, who is going to pay for the body armor that will protect your son in Iraq? Who is going to pay for the bailout you endorsed? If it isn"™t from tax revenues, there are only two ways to pay for those big projects "” printing more money or borrowing more money. Do you think borrowing money from China is more patriotic than raising it in taxes from Americans?"� That is not putting America first. That is selling America first.


Sorry, I grew up in a very middle-class family in a very middle-class suburb of Minneapolis, and my parents taught me that paying taxes, while certainly no fun, was how we paid for the police and the Army, our public universities and local schools, scientific research and Medicare for the elderly. No one said it better than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: "œI like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."�


I can understand someone saying that the government has no business bailing out the financial system, but I can"™t understand someone arguing that we should do that but not pay for it with taxes. I can understand someone saying we have no business in Iraq, but I can"™t understand someone who advocates staying in Iraq until "œvictory"� declaring that paying taxes to fund that is not patriotic.



How in the world can conservative commentators write with a straight face that this woman should be vice president of the United States? Do these people understand what serious trouble our country is in right now?



We are in the middle of an economic perfect storm, and we don"™t know how much worse it"™s going to get. People all over the world are hoarding cash, and no bank feels that it can fully trust anyone it is doing business with anywhere in the world. Did you notice that the government of Iceland just seized the country"™s second-largest bank and today is begging Russia for a $5 billion loan to stave off "œnational bankruptcy."� What does that say? It tells you that financial globalization has gone so much farther and faster than regulatory institutions could govern it. Our crisis could bankrupt Iceland! Who knew?


And we have not yet even felt the full economic brunt here. I fear we may be at that moment just before the tsunami hits "” when the birds take flight and the insects stop chirping because their acute senses can feel what is coming before humans can. At this moment, only good governance can save us. I am not sure that this crisis will end without every government in every major economy guaranteeing the creditworthiness of every financial institution it regulates. That may be the only way to get lending going again. Organizing something that big and complex will take some really smart governance and seasoned leadership.


Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber. But putting the country in the position where a total novice like Sarah Palin could be asked to steer us through possibly the most serious economic crisis of our lives is flat out reckless. It is the opposite of conservative.



And please don"™t tell me she will hire smart advisers. What happens when her two smartest advisers disagree?
And please also don"™t tell me she is an "œenergy expert."� She is an energy expert exactly the same way the king of Saudi Arabia is an energy expert "” by accident of residence. Palin happens to be governor of the Saudi Arabia of America "” Alaska "” and the only energy expertise she has is the same as the king of Saudi Arabia"™s. It"™s about how the windfall profits from the oil in their respective kingdoms should be divided between the oil companies and the people.


At least the king of Saudi Arabia, in advocating "œdrill baby drill,"� is serving his country"™s interests "” by prolonging America"™s dependence on oil. My problem with Palin is that she is also serving his country"™s interests "” by prolonging America"™s dependence on oil. That"™s not patriotic. Patriotic is offering a plan to build our economy "” not by tax cuts or punching more holes in the ground, but by empowering more Americans to work in productive and innovative jobs. If Palin has that kind of a plan, I haven"™t heard it.

[oldelkhunter]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081009/pl_afp/usvoteobamarednecks


These Billy Bobs are in for a rude awakening with Obammer
'Rednecks for Obama' want to bridge yawning culture gap



by Michael Mathes Thu Oct 9, 9:50 AM ET
[/align][/align]SAINT LOUIS, Missouri (AFP) - When Barack Obama's campaign bus made a swing through Missouri in July, the unlikeliest of supporters were waiting for him -- or rather two of them, holding the banner: "Rednecks for Obama."




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In backing the first African-American nominee of a major party for the US presidency, the pair are on a grassroots mission to bridge a cultural gap in the United States and help usher their preferred candidate into the White House.[/align]Tony Viessman, 74, and Les Spencer, 60, got politically active last year when it occurred to them there must be other lower income, rural, beer-drinking, gun-loving, NASCAR race enthusiasts fed up with business as usual in Washington.
Viessman had a red, white and blue "Rednecks for Obama" banner made, and began causing a stir in Missouri, which has emerged as a key battleground in the run-up to the November 4 presidential election.
"I didn't expect it would get as much steam and attention as it's gotten," Spencer told AFP on the campus of Washington University in Saint Louis, the state's biggest city and site of last week's vice-presidential debate.
"We believe in him. He's the best person for the job," Viessman, a former state trooper from Rolla, said of Obama, who met the pair briefly on that July day in Union, Missouri.
The candidate bounded off his bus and jogged back towards a roadside crowd to shake hands with the men holding the banner.
"He said 'This is incredible'," Spencer recalled.
It's been an unexpectedly gratifying run, Viessman said.
http://Rednecks4obama.com][/url]Rednecks4obama.com claims more than 800,000 online visits. In Denver, Colorado, Viessman and Spencer drew crowds at the Democratic convention, and at Washington University last Thursday they were two of the most popular senior citizens on campus.
"I'm shocked, actually, but excited" that such a demographic would be organizing support for Obama, said student Naia Ferguson, 18, said after hamming it up for pictures behind the banner.
"When most people think 'redneck,' they think conservatives, anti-change, even anti-integration," she said. "But America's changing, breaking stereotypes."
A southern comedian, Jeff Foxworthy, defines the stereotype as a "glorious lack of sophistication".
Philistines or not, he said, most rural southerners are no longer proponents of the Old South's most abhorrent ideology -- racism -- and that workaday issues such as the economy are dominating this year's election.
"We need to build the economy from the bottom up, none of this trickle down business," Spencer said. "Just because you're white and southern don't mean you have to vote Republican."
To an important degree, however, race is still the elephant in the polling booth, experts say, and according to a recent Stanford University poll, Obama could lose six points on election day due to his color.
Racism "has softened up some, but it's still there," Viessman acknowledged from Belmont University, site of Tuesday's McCain-Obama debate in Nashville, Tennessee.
Despite representing the heartland state of Illinois, and having a more working-class upbringing than his Republican rival John McCain, Obama has struggled to shoot down the impression that he is an arugula-eating elitist.
Surely he alienated many rural voters earlier this year when the Harvard-educated senator told a fundraiser that some blue-collar voters "cling to guns or religion".
But Viessman, who says he owns a dozen guns, said Obama "ain't gonna take your guns away."
The South traditionally votes Republican -- victories for southerners Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were exceptions -- but with less than a month to election day, four states in or bordering the South are considered toss-ups: Florida, Missouri, North Carolina and Virginia.
Viessman says he'd like to think his grassroots movement could sway enough people in small-town America to make a difference.
"There's lots of other rednecks for Obama too," he said. "And the ones that's not, we're trying our best to convince them."
[/align][/align]

[hillbillyhunter1]

Wahoo, You seem to think that paying taxes and paying higher taxes is the same. Obviosly Palin does not. She is right. If you disagree with her and think that paying higher taxes IS patriotic then obviously you may consider being the best "patriot" yo can be and send any extra penny you have to the IRS.

Here's one of their many addresses:

IRS
Kansas City, MO 64999

Jere's some more quotes for you. Unfortunately these are not from that ether addict Oliver holmes but from Thomas Jefferson:

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

[Snooky]

If Palin has that kind of a plan, I haven"™t heard it.


If Obama and Biden have such a plan, they also have kept it pretty quite. Where have they gone into the details of there plan to "right the ship". All I hear is, "We will fix it", when ever they are asked about a point of concern, But never say,this is exactly what I will do.
The promise to make health care coverage affordable when Obama becomes president, is to be paid for by streamlining the system. To get everything in place and producing real savings, the experts say it will take 12-15 years, at the earliest, but likely never will produce the savings Obama has promised.
I do not mind paying taxes, that means I had some income during the last year. Paying taxes and being patriotic are two entirely separate things. Giving the children a generious allowance because you love them is wonderful. Paying the morgage to the bank each month doesn't show that you have a love for the bank. Spending money and paying the bills keeps the wheels of finance turning, which in turn creates a healthy economy. Is paying the bills therefore being patriotic? I hardly thing so.

that really sticks in my craw.

Sounds like a good dose of "grit" is in order.

[rbeckman]

Patriotism= Onewho loves his or her country, couldn't find anything about me paying more taxes makes me patriotic. I love this country, just don't love the people who are makingor about to makethe decisionthat affect all of us.

[Howler]

Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber. But putting the country in the position where a total novice like Sarah Palin could be asked to steer us through possibly the most serious economic crisis of our lives is flat out reckless. It is the opposite of conservative.

And to putone of the most liberal socialistic beleivingsenators, who has all of 143 days on the job experience, isn't concidered "reckless" is beyond me![:@]

[wahoohunter]

ORIGINAL: Howler

And to putone of the most liberal socialistic beleivingsenators, who has all of 143 days on the job experience, isn't concidered "reckless" is beyond me![:@]

Obama's beliefs are fundamentally democratic. And, get off the job experience thing, republicans relinquished that right when appointing Palin.

[etothepii]

ORIGINAL: wahoohunter

Obama's beliefs are fundamentally democratic. And, get off the job experience thing, republicans relinquished that right when appointing Palin.

This looks like an admonition that Obama doesn't have enough experience. You sure you want to go down that road. BTW, I like this words of T.J. quoted above!!

[Howler]

Hey, what's fair is fair. The "experience" subject was brought up in your post, if you don't like the fact that your #1 man lacks the experience to run the country, but yet want to point out the lack of experience for the #2 lady on the other ticket, live with it!!
Obama's ties to poeple who spout Socialism only points to his beliefs! You either see it, or you don't and you obviously like to look the other way!!

For instance, in the last debate Obama admitted that he believes that health care is a "RIGHT". Tell me, do you also beleive that health care should be a RIGHT?? In other words, the Government should run health care, tax the rich to give the care to the poor!!

[Fieldmouse]

Sicialism is alive and well. Congressman Miller "D" from California was holding hearings today on the hill that is basically the begining of the slippery slope to end 401K's. Seems Dr. Teresa Ghilarducciwould like to end 401K's and echange them for Guarantee Retirement Account back by government bonds.

"Going forward, I propose Congress establish universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts and the federal government deposit $600 (inflation indexed) in those Guaranteed Retirement Accounts every year for every worker. Every worker (not in an equivalent defined benefit plan) would save 5% of their pay into their Guaranteed Retirement Account to which the government pays a 3% inflation-indexed guaranteed return. Workers would earn pension credits based on these accumulations."

Does this sound like SS take two? It's coming boys and you better pay attention.You need to Wahoo. I suspect when you finally get pulled off your momma's tit and graduate from the seconded rate school of yours, you too want to earn your own money and save it for both retirement and leave some for your kids. You continue to hide your head and tell me paying most of your paycheck straight to the government is patriotic and you should feel good about it. Take Hillbilly's advice and send 55% of your money from your parents for living at school and send it to the IRS. When you've done that for a semester, let me know how patriotic you feel!