It's called simple math

[Griswold]

Our resident liberals can harp on and on and on all they like about Obama's plan and how it's going to put more money in our pockets. But it really comes down to simple math.

Obama and Biden have pledged to double our foreign aid. That's substantial money. They've pledged tax reductions for everyone making less than $250k per year. That's substantial money. They've pledged a number of additional social programs. That's substantial money. Biden even suggested that the principal be reduced on mortgages that are in danger of going into foreclosure. Clearly, these are the folks who want to bail out anyone and everyone, from Africans in poverty to unwise homebuyers here in America.

That's all very noble, I suppose, but where does the money come from? You can talk about a tax increase on the wealthy all you want . . . And, by the way, I love it when Biden harps about it being "fair." Fair? There's nothing fair about it. If 50% of one's earnings going to taxes is fair, at what point does it become unfair? 60%? 70%? Who gets to decide? The fact of the matter is that those folks earning more than $250,000 per year are the folks who invest in new jobs here in America. But you can talk about those "fair" tax increases on the wealthy all you want. That still isn't going to pay for Obama's promises.

So all this talk about income tax decreases for 95% of Americans is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It will take substantial amounts of money to operate the world's largest rescue mission that Obama is planning for Capitol Hill. Where else is it going to come from but our pockets? What the Obama supporters seem oblivious to is that there are many forms of taxes other than income tax.

Biden says it's unpatriotic to support measures that will allow jobs to move overseas. Then he claps on the back the man who supports a plan that would nearly double the capital gains taxes on folks who make many of our jobs possible. Does anyone else see the irony here?

Does it strike any of you as strange that none of the big-name economists are coming out in support of Obama?

[fodderblade]

It could lead to record deficits, deficit spending, record national debt, spiraling interest payments to the Chinese, jobs going overseas, recession, financial troubles, banks collapsing, job loss, and a housing crisis.


Hmmmmmmm.

[Griswold]

Well either you signed in with the wrong username this time or you're finally talking sense.

Seriously, though. Let's pursue your line of thinking that shows up beneath your sarcasm. You start first: What Bush policies led to the banking collapse, job losses, housing crisis, etc.?

[fodderblade]

Bush & Co had their way for 6 years. You're blaming stuff on Obama that hasn't even happened yet. LOL.

No that's reaching - for nothing.

Bush and hisappologistslike you can't accept responsibility for anything, they just grunt and blame things on Clinton.

"But Obama might do this, and that might happen."

Bush McCain have proven how they can run the country - right into the ground.

Obama 2008!

[burniegoeasily]

ORIGINAL: fodderblade

Bush & Co had their way for 6 years. You're blaming stuff on Obama that hasn't even happened yet. LOL.

No that's reaching - for nothing.

Bush and hisappologistslike you can't accept responsibility for anything, they just grunt and blame things on Clinton.

"But Obama might do this, and that might happen."

Bush McCain have proven how they can run the country - right into the ground.

Obama 2008!

How does that answer the question? Why do you not give us facts, or at least what Bush actuall did that caused this. Got to remember congress has to approve bills, or they do not get passed.


"Its all Bushes fault" Ok we get it. Now, how about explaining how Bush did it. I do not like Bush either, but ill at least explain what he has done to make me p.o.ed.

[fodderblade]

The thread starter is posing "what might happen" as an attack on Obama. I guess those accusations should be "proved" first.

But of course they can't be "proved" so they won't be.

[burniegoeasily]

ORIGINAL: fodderblade

The thread starter is posing "what might happen" as an attack on Obama. I guess those accusations should be "proved" first.

But of course they can't be "proved" so they won't be.

I agree when the conservatives post diatribes about Obama with no substance. But there are things mentioned in the opening thread that has been proposed by the candidates. It was not just a, "Obama is bad, Biden is bad" thread. There are things there that can be either substantiated or proven false. I listen to all the Obama speeches ,as well as all the candidates. I have heard some of what is posted in the opening thread addressed by Obama and Bidens. What I was pointing out in your response is; you state that we are in a crisis, so Bush did it because he is in office. How about some things Bush has done that caused it. That is what I was addressing.

[fodderblade]

OK burnie, here ya go.

1) This recession happened under the Bush Admin - so he owns it. That's proof enough. Bush himself said he inherited a recession from Clinton, blaming it on him simply because he(Clinton)was president when it happened. That's good enough in politics. The Buck stops with the president.

2) 6 years of allowing bad lending practices to continue and bad loans to be made - doing nothing is as culpable as passing bad laws.

3) Deregulation - anything goes - and go it did.

Again, if Bush doesn't own this recession, then Clinton doesn't have to own his.

Which law or "policy" did it? You know there is no such simple answer.

The Buck stops with the president at that time - period.

If there was one common factor in the Clinton and Bush recessions, it was a republican house and senate passing the laws in both time periods.

[DougMD]

Didn't McCain want better regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to the point of SPONSORING a bill to do just that? Didn't Obama and company block it from being passed? Didn't Obama, a FRESHMAN senator receive the second most contributions from Fannie Mae, behind Dodd? Isn't Raines Obama's housing advisor? Didn't Barnie Frank come out against said proposed legislation saying it would cut affordable housing if we stopped lending to people whose credit implied they wouldn't live up to their end of the mortgage deal and make the monthly payments? Didn't easy credit to the noncreditworthy drive UP prices and contribute heavily to the housing bubble, making them unaffordable as it was?

This is about the future, and whether McCain is better than Obama.

[burniegoeasily]

ORIGINAL: fodderblade

OK burnie, here ya go.

1) This recession happened under the Bush Admin - so he owns it. That's proof enough. Bush himself said he inherited a recession from Clinton, blaming it on him simply because he(Clinton)was president when it happened. That's good enough in politics. The Buck stops with the president.

How does that answer any question. That just proves both sides play the blame game. No proof of anything.

2) 6 years of allowing bad lending practices to continue and bad loans to be made - doing nothing is as culpable as passing bad laws.

Ill agree that this helped expedite the process, which also has other variables. Not quite as simple as you put it. But to use your arguement, McCain tried to fix both the Clinton and Bush mistakes with S 109.

Again, if Bush doesn't own this recession, then Clinton doesn't have to own his.

Which law or "policy" did it? You know there is no such simple answer.

The Buck stops with the president at that time - period.

If there was one common factor in the Clinton and Bush recessions, it was a republican house and senate passing the laws in both time periods.

I agree that both Clinton and Bush had recessions tacked to their names that had more going on than what people point out. And you are right, we had a republican congress passing the bills, but to the Republican defense, there were measures put in motion to fix the crises we have now. The present Democratic congress killed such measures. When S109 was presented, you had the likes of Franks and Pelosi saying there was no problem with the deregulation and they tabled the bill.