Does Barack support the second amendment?

[Wmodel94]

I have a friend who is a gun owner and also a Barack supporter. I tried to convince him that Barack is anti-gun, but he says that Obama is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. He says that Obama"™s speeches and voting record indicate that he is supportive of gun owners. I need some help on two points to convince him otherwise. Can any of you help me?
Item number one is to prove that Barack is anti-gun. Are there links to voting records that show Barack is anti-gun? Are there articles or video in major news sources which have speeches that show it?
Number two is that I believe that the anti-gun folks hope to build up to a situation where the government confiscates guns. My buddy says that is a ridiculous joke. He says that no government entity, federal, state or local, has ever confiscated guns from otherwise law abiding citizens in the United States. Is he correct? Can you prove otherwise?
Thanks in advance for your help.

[RainmakerIII]

Your Friend is correct, Obama is not anti-gun. It is the Republican party that use the gun issue to scare voters.

[sachiko]

Anyone can say that they support the second amendment and Obama has done that. But he follows that up by claiming that the second amendment does not preclude "sensible gun control." For example he saw no problem with the D.C. gun ban that the Supreme Court just overturned.

"Sensible Gun Control" means that you and I cannot be trusted with guns. "Sensible Gun Control" includes banning guns from schools so you will never have tragedies like Columbine or Virginia Tech.

Yes they confiscated guns from New Orleans residents after Katrina. I don't know if those people ever got their guns back.

[RainmakerIII]

As you stated, there are sensible gun laws. Hence, passing a gun law does not make you Anti-2nd

[Vizsla Vince]

ORIGINAL: RainmakerIII

As you stated, there are sensible gun laws. Hence, passing a gun law does not make you Anti-2nd

The trouble with these so-called "sensible" gun laws is that only law-abiding citizens will follow them These "sensible" gun laws simply do not apply to criminals any more than any other law...
The only thing "sensible" gun laws have ever done is disarm law abiding citizens.

[sachiko]

ORIGINAL: RainmakerIII

As you stated, there are sensible gun laws. Hence, passing a gun law does not make you Anti-2nd

If "Sensible Gun Control" includes a ban on gun ownership by law-abiding citizens, as in the D.C. gun ban, which Obama supported, then Obama is anti-second amendment.

Of course there is a secondary problem. If someone says they do not support the second amendment, that is a matter of opinion. But if someone, like Obama, says they support the second amendment and then approves oflaws banning guns, that person is a liar. Ergo, Obama not only opposes the second amendment, but he is a liar and a hypocrite, not worthy of our vote regardless of how we feel about guns.

[Cougar Mag]

These "sensible" gun laws simply do not apply to criminals any more than any other law...

The alternative is to get the criminals off the streets and behind bars. But how many more prisons do we need to build and at what cost to the taxpayer? Only way to keep guns from criminals is to vigorously investigate and prosecute the black market, illegal sale of handguns, etc. Than that opens another can of worms as in gun registration. Many oppose additional paperwork and gun registration yet the same people want the guns out of criminal's hands. Just how do we do that without taking aggressive measures while at the same time protecting our bill or rights?

Personally I am for all law abiding citizens of every state having the option to own and carry guns for protection. We do not need additional gun laws, but we do need to support getting guns out of criminal's hands.

[Alsatian]

I suggest you research your subject on the NRA (National Rifle Association) web site. I'm sure they will have a bunch of information on Obama's votes, in the US Senate as well as in the Illinois State legislature, as well as on Obama's public utterances on this subject. Clearly Obama is anti-gun. RainmakerIII is merely attempting to "control the narrative" and to repeat a lie often enough that some lazy minded people believe it.

Look particularly to Obama's pre-June statements about whether the second amendment relates to a "Collective Right" or an "Individual Right." The "Collective Right" view takes the position that you have a right tokeep and bear arms ONLY by virtue of being a member of a militia. That is sorta, kinda like taking the position that you only have a first amendment right to free speech if you are a news reporter on a major national newspaper.

Look to Obama's position on the vote for legislation that would prohibit frivolous law suits against gun manufacturers. The purpose of this legislation, which passed, was to prohibit nuisance law suits against gun manufacturers when there was no claim in the lawsuit that the guns in question malfunctioned.

Look to Obama's stated positions of assault weapons bans. Be advised, in advance, that the game plan with these "assault weapons" bans is to define the term "assault weapon" very broadly, thereby sweeping up a bunch of other weapons merely on the basis that they have pistol grips, they have high capacity magazines, and other miscellaneous features.

Look to Obama's rating by the Brady group, a well known anti-gun organization.

The NRA is an EXTREMELY agenda driven organization. They have a very clear, very publically acknowledged agenda. They want to preserve the second amendment and promote the shooting arts. They are going to call ANY politician to task -- be they Democrat or be they Republican -- that threatens or poops on the second amendment. They typically give ratings to politicians based on their public voting records on gun issues. As far as I can tell, the NRA has never been called partisan. They will be happy to give a Democrat an A rating, if that Democrat supports the second amendment. I would bet that you will find plenty of Democrats that the NRA gives high ratings to . . . probably mostly coming from states like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Texas where being a Democrat hasn't traditionally meant you buy into a bunch of flakey liberal crap like gun control and in states where hunting and gun rights are highly respected by the mass of the population.

Ibelieve that Obama made the following statement (or words largely to this effect)during his acceptance speech just this last week. "Don't tell me we can't preserve the second amendment while also keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals!" Now that takes some reading between the lines. There aren't nearly as many AK-47s arounds as there are AR-15 style rifles. Is Obama going to ban AK-47s and not AR-15s? No. Is Obama going to ban AK-47s and AR-15s and leave other weapons alone? No. This utterance is clearly saying he is going to promote/support/sign into law an updated "assault weapons" ban. The updated version is going to be much more encompassing, the only question is where do they plan to draw the line. One fear is that they may extend the lines to include "military firearms." My sporterized Springfield .30-06 would clearly fall under this category -- it is a rifle built as a military weapon under contract to the US government. My customized .25-06 built on a Springfield .30-06 action would more than likely fall under this category. My Winchester Model 12 shotgun was used to some extent by the military, and the government purchased Model 12s under contract with Winchester, hence this, too, is a military weapon that would fall under this category. Another concept that has been bruited about in connection with the renewal of the assault weapons ban is to ban "cop killer" rounds and firearms that fire such "cop killer" rounds. Now, the definitions circulated include a cartridge that can penetrate commonly used police bullet proof vests. Police bullet proof vests are designed to stop some pistol ammunition. They don't stand up well to high powered centerfire rifle ammunition such as .243, .25-06, .270, 7 mm Magnum, .308, .30-06, .300 Winchester Magnum. Did I include any commonly used hunting cartridges in that list? Others associate semi-automatic weapons with this assault weapon ban. That would include semi-automatic shotguns. Does anyone use these kinds of firearms -- for shooting trap, skeet, ducks, geese? Some extend the list to including repeating firearms. Pump shotguns and rifles are clearly included in this. It is possible that "repeating" is also intended to include lever action firearms and bolt actio firearms, leaving only single shot firearms.

Yes, Obama is anti-gun. Yes, the threat of the Democrats to our second amendment rights is very real. And while the second amendment is not limited to hunting -- in fact, you can argue that hunting is a trivial basis for the second amendment which is much more importantly directed to issues of the right of self-defense -- hunters who take solace in the idea that the gun banners would NEVER grab their hunting arms are deluding themselves. They have only to take this subject up with their hunting colleagues in the UK and in Australia to be disabused of this naieve notion.

[rifle_man]

No Obama will tak your guns
This is off the NRA web site
On the Second Amendment,
Don"™t Believe Obama!






Print PDF version The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for "œsportsmen"� or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.
But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don"™t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.
FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1
FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15
FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2
FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4
FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5
FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6
FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.
FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7
FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and "œresearch."�8
FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9
FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10
FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11
FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2
FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14
FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9
[align=center][/align][/align]1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1& amp;vote=00219)
2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in "œObama had greater role on liberal survey,"� Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)
3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1& amp;vote=00217)
4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html)
5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.
6. "œFact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record."� Obama "™08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php)
7. "œCandidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,"� Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html)
8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.
9. "œObama and Gun Control,"� The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)
10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.
11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.
12. "œClinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,"� Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html)
13. Chicago Tribune blogs, "œBarack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,"� February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html)
14. Barack Obama campaign website: "œAs president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . ."� (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.)
15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.
16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

[sachiko]

ORIGINAL: Cougar Mag

The alternative is to get the criminals off the streets and behind bars. But how many more prisons do we need to build and at what cost to the taxpayer? Only way to keep guns from criminals is to vigorously investigate and prosecute the black market, illegal sale of handguns, etc. Than that opens another can of worms as in gun registration. Many oppose additional paperwork and gun registration yet the same people want the guns out of criminal's hands. Just how do we do that without taking aggressive measures while at the same time protecting our bill or rights?

Personally I am for all law abiding citizens of every state having the option to own and carry guns for protection. We do not need additional gun laws, but we do need to support getting guns out of criminal's hands.

Unless you eliminate gun ownership completely, you cannot keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Michigan requires that EVERY handgun legally purchased, be registered with your local law enforcement agency. In fact, unless you have a CPL, you have to get a "permit to purchase" before you even buy one. After you purchase, you must take the gun to your local law enforcement agency where they take down your name, the make, model of gun and it's serial number. They issue you a card showing that it is registered. (The card is NOT a permit to carry.) If you sell it to a private party, they have to go through the same process. You have to go through the process if you even loan your gun to someone. If the gun is stolen, you have ten days to report the theft.

Even with all this "Sensible Gun Control" Detroit was the murder capital of the world for a while. This only changed when the legislature made Michigan a "shall issue" state wherein any law abiding citizen could get a CPL.