So here it is... Further erosion of our hunting rights

[badshotbob]

Big news here in Michigan - CWD was detected in a farm-raised deer, which triggered a ban on baiting in the entire lower peninsula.

Michigan's whitetail population has been high for years now and has really exploded over the past several years due to mild winters. This should really aggravate the farmers as a ban on baiting will most definitely reduce the harvest. More importantly in my mind though is the gradual creep on our rights as hunters.


http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153...8865--,00.html

http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153--198877--,00.html

In the wake of Monday's announcement that Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) has been confirmed in a three-year old privately-owned white-tailed deer in Kent County, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is acting immediately to implement provisions of the state's Surveillance and Response Plan for CWD.

Among the provisions is an immediate ban on all baiting and feeding of deer and elk in the Lower Peninsula.

This is insane. All over a single deer?

[Big Duane]

and the root cause ?



horn porn, which feeds the high fenced places and keeps them in business

until Hunting decides to blackball and completely dissassociate themselves with high fenced places, it will never stop

[badshotbob]

ORIGINAL: Big Duane

and the root cause ?



horn porn, which feeds the high fenced places and keeps them in business

until Hunting decides to blackball and completely dissassociate themselves with high fenced places, it will never stop

While there's a bit of truth to that thought, it's certainly not the root cause. The root cause is to strip away rights.

Big-rack penned hunting is only a part of the business of raising deer in MI. These farms sell meat to restaurants, collect urine, petting farms, recreational purposes, etc.

I would say the majority of hunters have no association whatsoever at all with high fenced farms. Most hunters don't even care one way or the other that these places exist. That's not even close to the point.

Why would a state-wide ban on baiting be implemented over a single captive deer? The focus should be on the deer farms, right? Sure the DNR implemented a state-wide quarantine on these farms, but why ban baiting? Baiting in MI is a multi-million dollar business. In a suffering economy, why ban baiting?

ONE REASON: To slowly take our rights away.

[Alsatian]

I'm not from Michigan and don't know all the issues. Feel free to dismiss my comments as uninformed and beside the point . . . that may very well be the case.

As far as hunting the deer, I wouldn't think that a baiting ban should impact hunting overly much, if there is such an over population of deer as you indicated. I would guess any hunter who does a reasonable job of scouting their hunting ground can discover the pathways of the deer between food, water, and cover and the customary times of the comings and goings of the deer without too much trouble. So comment #1: how much is it going to impact hunting? Maybe not much. In some places baiting deer is illegal -- Oklahoma where I hunt, for example. Certainly some people consider hunting over bait to be unsporting. Of course, what you are responding to is a change in long-standing rules, and I acknowledge that this can be pretty upsetting. I'm just trying to suggest maybe the damage, practically considered, isn't that grevious.

As far as farmers thinning deer populations to manage and limit crop damages, in most places farmers are given a lot of freedom to handle these problems. Isn't it possible that farmers can get some special waiver of the bait ban so they can deal with the crop damage problem?

Fundamentally I find it difficult to interpret that law as a naked maneuvre to derail your hunting rights. It would seem there would be much more direct and damaging means to accomplish that purpose . . . if that were the purpose of your legislators.

[Griswold]

I think you're pretty much on to the real issue here when you say that it happened over one deer. My guess is the Michigan DNR was just waiting for an excuse to end baiting and this fell into their laps. If I'm not mistaken, I read in one of the stories about the CWD find yesterday that baiting had already been banned in part of the state.

For whatever reason, DNRs are dead-set against baiting, and I've seen them use all sorts of excuses (and lies) to promote their reasoning. In my state, it is illegal to hunt over bait. It can be placed but has to be removed at least 10 days before hunting commences (or you can leave it but you can't hunt around it or near it, and it's often the game warden's disgression whether where you're hunting qualifies as hunting "over bait"). Soon, even the off-season feeding will probably end here, as well as using mineral blocks during the season, because our DNR says it is promoting the spread of illness. I'm sorry; I just don't buy it. I don't think there are any studies that would confirm what the DNR says. The DNR has pushed for placing any corn, etc., to be illegal at any time of the year because they say it helps poachers. WTH? That's the same lunacy that's used in the gun control arguments. Poachers are called poachers for a reason: They disobey the law.

Sorry to get started on a rant, but it just goes to show that this war against baiting is universal. I mean, let's face it: A single captive CWD-infected deer is not exactly big news. It's just a matter of time before it's found in every state. The only reason it hasn't been so far, IMO, is because testing mechanisms are so new. There isn't much we can do to stop the spread of CWD, the quarantines and total herd eradication not withstanding.

On the other hand, maybe I'm naive because I don't live in a state that permits hunting over bait, but my observations with trail cameras is that mature deer aren't going to visit bait sites during the daylight hours anyway. Will a ban on baiting really impact hunting that much?

[badshotbob]

ORIGINAL: Alsatian

As far as hunting the deer, I wouldn't think that a baiting ban should impact hunting overly much, if there is such an over population of deer as you indicated. I would guess any hunter who does a reasonable job of scouting their hunting ground can discover the pathways of the deer between food, water, and cover and the customary times of the comings and goings of the deer without too much trouble. So comment #1: how much is it going to impact hunting? Maybe not much. In some places baiting deer is illegal -- Oklahoma where I hunt, for example. Certainly some people consider hunting over bait to be unsporting. Of course, what you are responding to is a change in long-standing rules, and I acknowledge that this can be pretty upsetting. I'm just trying to suggest maybe the damage, practically considered, isn't that grevious.

While that is a good example of "how deer should be hunted", it's far from reality. For example, I hunt a 40 acre swamp two hours north of my house. I've been hunting this property off and on for 24 years now so I'm familiar with the deer movement and patterns. It's a particularly hard plot to hunt with a bow given the fact that the swamp is so thick and deer runs are so numerous. Without bait, the chances of taking a deer are greatly reduced given the circumstances of the habitat. With a firearm, it's a different story since the property offers shooting on the outside of the swamp up to 250 yards or so, and it's obviously easier with a firearm in the interior of the swamp given the fact that the typical range is dramatically increased.

Many deer in MI are taken over bait, which aids in keeping the population in check.

As far as farmers thinning deer populations to manage and limit crop damages, in most places farmers are given a lot of freedom to handle these problems. Isn't it possible that farmers can get some special waiver of the bait ban so they can deal with the crop damage problem?

Farmers are given special block permits to help thin the heard on their properties, even out of season permits if damage is relatively high. Most farmers I've talked to will shoot deer while farming all year round to let them crawl off and die just to thin the heard and protect their crops. So I'm not so sure that the bait ban would directly impact a farmer's hunting. I would think that the bait ban will increase the herd though.

Fundamentally I find it difficult to interpret that law as a naked maneuvre to derail your hunting rights. It would seem there would be much more direct and damaging means to accomplish that purpose . . . if that were the purpose of your legislators.

MI has for some time now been anxious about knocking down hunters' rights. We have experienced this with the isolated ban on baiting in the northern part of the lower peninsula over a TB scare. We've seen it with bear hunting. Now this. It's slow, yet deliberate.

Don't you think banning baiting nearly state-wide over one single penned deer is a little over the top?

[badshotbob]

ORIGINAL: Griswold

On the other hand, maybe I'm naive because I don't live in a state that permits hunting over bait, but my observations with trail cameras is that mature deer aren't going to visit bait sites during the daylight hours anyway. Will a ban on baiting really impact hunting that much?

In my opinion, yes, it will greatly impact hunting here in MI. Not every hunter is out for horns. Most hunters in fact have dreams of the wall mount, but have settled in to the fact that hunting in MI yields many small bucks and an abundance of does. I for one am a meat hunter. My family does not eat beef so when we run out of venison, that's that until next season.

How is banning baiting going to stop deer from having contact with one another? This will be my 29th season hunting so I can say that I've observed deer behavior in a variety of settings during the entire year. Guess what? The critters actually touch and lick each other - all WITHOUT THE AID OF A BAIT PILE!

Banning baiting is nothing short of the road to banning hunting IMO.

[Big Duane]

http://www.serconline.org/huntandfish.html

Alabama
Sportsperson"™s Bill of Rights
Bill Number: H 359, 1996, Amendment 597
Status: Passed
In 1996, the voters of Alabama amended that state"™s constitution to guarantee a "œright to hunt and fish."�
For text of the amendment, see: Alabama Considers Constitutional "œRight to Fish"�

Michigan
Hunting Rights
Bill Number: HJR L, 2003
Status: In Committee
Establishes hunting, fishing, camping, or taking game as a Constitutional right.


Michigan (and many other states) needs the above Right to Hunt Constitutional ammendments.

So what if you can't bait? Baiting isn't the issue, the CWD is and the root cause of CWD spread if high fenced hunting ie canned hunting ie high fenced game farming

[Steve863]

What about food plots? Is that considered baiting? In my state baiting is illegal, yet they allow people to kill deer over foodplots. To me there is little difference. Yeah, I know someone hunting by a cornfield can be considered similar to hunting a foodplot, but to me if food is specifically being grown to attract deer it is baiting and should not be allowed if the state says baiting is illegal. So laws that forbid baiting really don't mean much in many cases.

[badshotbob]

ORIGINAL: Big Duane
So what if you can't bait? Baiting isn't the issue, the CWD is and the root cause of CWD spread if high fenced hunting ie canned hunting ie high fenced game farming

Well wait a minute. If baiting isn't the issue, then why did they ban baiting? If penned game were the root of spreading CWD, why are they not closing that industry? What does baiting have to do with the other? Nothing. It's merely a tactic to strip our rights plain and simple.

So tell me, Big D, how does high fences spread this so-called disease?