With news this week that polar ice is melting dramatically, underwater Arctic pyrotechnics might seem like a logical smoking gun.
Scientists don't see any significant connection, however.
"We don't believe the volcanoes had much effect on the overlying ice," Reeves-Sohn told LiveScience, "but they seem to have had a major impact on the overlying water column."
The eruptions discharge large amounts of carbon dioxide, helium, trace metals and heat into the water over long distances, he said.
RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
1. The Arctic Ocean has an area of 14,056,000 square kilometers. If the average thickness of the ice is 1 meter this works out to 1.4X10 to the 13'th cubic meters of ice covering the Arctic Ocean. Ice has a density of about 1000kg per cubic meter which gives us a total mass of ice to be melted equal to 1.4x10 to the 16'th power kilograms.
2. The heat of fusion which is the amount of energy that has to be supplied to turn solid water into a liquid is 80 kilocalories per kg which works out to 4.18x1000x80=334,400 joules/kg.
3. multiplying the mass of ice in kilograms by the number of joules of heat needed to accomplish the phase change from the solid to liquid stategives 4.7X10 to the 21'st power in joules. This is the total energy in the form of heat needed to render the Arctic free of ice.
4. The biggest volcano in recorded history is Tambora which erupted in Indonesia in 1815. The total amount of energy released was estimated to be 1.8x10 to the 17th power joules.
5. As can be seen, even if all the heat ofthe largestvolcano modern man has ever experiencedcould be used with 100% efficiency for melting ice, it would stillbe too small by a factor of about 26,000to melt the Arctic ice sheet. For all practical purposes the effect of the sub-sea volcanos on the Arctic ice cap would be way too small to be measureable. This is probably why it is not mentioned by scientists as a factor in the shrinking of the North polar ice cap. [align=right]
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RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
Quote:
ORIGINAL: SP10
1. The Arctic Ocean has an area of 14,056,000 square kilometers. If the average thickness of the ice is 1 meter this works out to 1.4X10 to the 13'th cubic meters of ice covering the Arctic Ocean. Ice has a density of about 1000kg per cubic meter which gives us a total mass of ice to be melted equal to 1.4x10 to the 16'th power kilograms.
2. The heat of fusion which is the amount of energy that has to be supplied to turn solid water into a liquid is 80 kilocalories per kg which works out to 4.18x1000x80=334,400 joules/kg.
3. multiplying the mass of ice in kilograms by the number of joules of heat needed to accomplish the phase change from the solid to liquid stategives 4.7X10 to the 21'st power in joules. This is the total energy in the form of heat needed to render the Arctic free of ice.
4. The biggest volcano in recorded history is Tambora which erupted in Indonesia in 1815. The total amount of energy released was estimated to be 1.8x10 to the 17th power joules.
5. As can be seen, even if all the heat ofthe largestvolcano modern man has ever experiencedcould be used with 100% efficiency for melting ice, it would stillbe too small by a factor of about 26,000to melt the Arctic ice sheet. For all practical purposes the effect of the sub-sea volcanos on the Arctic ice cap would be way too small to be measureable. This is probably why it is not mentioned by scientists as a factor in the shrinking of the North polar ice cap. [align=right]
[/align]
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RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
Quote:
1. The Arctic Ocean has an area of 14,056,000 square kilometers. If the average thickness of the ice is 1 meter this works out to 1.4X10 to the 13'th cubic meters of ice covering the Arctic Ocean. Ice has a density of about 1000kg per cubic meter which gives us a total mass of ice to be melted equal to 1.4x10 to the 16'th power kilograms.
2. The heat of fusion which is the amount of energy that has to be supplied to turn solid water into a liquid is 80 kilocalories per kg which works out to 4.18x1000x80=334,400 joules/kg.
3. multiplying the mass of ice in kilograms by the number of joules of heat needed to accomplish the phase change from the solid to liquid stategives 4.7X10 to the 21'st power in joules. This is the total energy in the form of heat needed to render the Arctic free of ice.
4. The biggest volcano in recorded history is Tambora which erupted in Indonesia in 1815. The total amount of energy released was estimated to be 1.8x10 to the 17th power joules.
5. As can be seen, even if all the heat ofthe largestvolcano modern man has ever experiencedcould be used with 100% efficiency for melting ice, it would stillbe too small by a factor of about 26,000to melt the Arctic ice sheet. For all practical purposes the effect of the sub-sea volcanos on the Arctic ice cap would be way too small to be measureable. This is probably why it is not mentioned by scientists as a factor in the shrinking of the North polar ice cap.
And yet they say that 1 degree change in surface temp is melting the ice, NOT
RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
Quote:
ORIGINAL: SP10
1. The Arctic Ocean has an area of 14,056,000 square kilometers. If the average thickness of the ice is 1 meter this works out to 1.4X10 to the 13'th cubic meters of ice covering the Arctic Ocean. Ice has a density of about 1000kg per cubic meter which gives us a total mass of ice to be melted equal to 1.4x10 to the 16'th power kilograms.
2. The heat of fusion which is the amount of energy that has to be supplied to turn solid water into a liquid is 80 kilocalories per kg which works out to 4.18x1000x80=334,400 joules/kg.
3. multiplying the mass of ice in kilograms by the number of joules of heat needed to accomplish the phase change from the solid to liquid stategives 4.7X10 to the 21'st power in joules. This is the total energy in the form of heat needed to render the Arctic free of ice.
4. The biggest volcano in recorded history is Tambora which erupted in Indonesia in 1815. The total amount of energy released was estimated to be 1.8x10 to the 17th power joules.
5. As can be seen, even if all the heat ofthe largestvolcano modern man has ever experiencedcould be used with 100% efficiency for melting ice, it would stillbe too small by a factor of about 26,000to melt the Arctic ice sheet. For all practical purposes the effect of the sub-sea volcanos on the Arctic ice cap would be way too small to be measureable. This is probably why it is not mentioned by scientists as a factor in the shrinking of the North polar ice cap. [align=right]
[/align]
To melt ALL the ice sure, but your equation doesnt take into consideration how much (even if its a slight increase)the volcanos may be heating the water and thus causing the ice to melt at an accelerated pace. Possible?
RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
A slight increase in the temperature of the seawater will not melt the ice. As the temperature of the water rises it warms the ice to 0 degrees centigrate. All heat added after that does not warm the ice further; itall goes into accomplishing the phase change from the solid to the liquid state. Phase changes require a lot of energy because of the need to break the molecular bonds that make up the solid crystal state of ice and turn it into a liquid. While it takes only 4100 joules of energyto heat one kilogram of water 1 degree C, it takes 80 times as much or 334,000 joules of heat energy to change that same kilogram of water from solid ice to a liquid. Thesystem does not get any warmer, no matter how much heat is added,until the phase change is accomplished. Once all of the ice is melted, additional heat input can resume raising the temperature of the water. This energy required to accomplish the phase change is known as the "heat of fusion". So while a relatively modest amount of heat can warm the water a few degrees,a very large amount of heatis needed to turn significant amounts of ice into a liquid. When the water reaches 100 degrees C a much greater amount of heat than the heat of fusion is needed to convert liquid water into steam,the gas phase of water. When determining what the temperature of a system is going to be after adding a certain amount of heat, it is critical to take intoaccount any phase changes that need to occur to go from one temperature to another.
RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
What I don't understand is how we've experienced about 1 degree of global warming in the past 100 years, right? But suddenly the arctic is melting at a rapid pace this year after we've had global cooling in 2007, andthe south pole is amassing MOREice? I'm trying to understand how natural global warming explains all this as we've had cooling and warming cycles from the beginning of time, much less MANMADE global warming. This is all before we justify spending potentially trillions of dollars on the issue whenit may have ZERO impact beyond destroying our economy while the world laughs at us!
RE: Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
The climates of the North Pole and the South Pole are not really comparable. The North Pole is located in the middle of an ocean where the surface ice is going to be at an elevation of approximately sea level. The South Pole is located in the middle of a continent and the surface thereis some 3,000 meters above sea level. Therefore, Antartica is always going to be considerably colder than the Arctic in the same way that the summit of a tall mountain is going to be colder than the valley below. Ifindeedthe amount of ice in Anartica is increasing, it is more likely due to the climate therebecoming wetterrather than colder. AtAntarctic elevations and temperaturesany precipitation that falls is going to fall as snow which eventually is compacted into ice. An increase in Anarctic ice could well be a sign of global climate change relating to precipitation patterns, but probablynotan indication of global cooling.
Huge Volcanoes May Be Erupting Under Arctic Ice
