ELDORADO, Texas FLDS sect and the ramifications

Big Duane · 04-15-2008, 03:54 PM

On the surface, good job to break up a polygamy bunch that is a bunch of old men doing the nasty with young girls they fathered and the whole bunch.

But is that what happened ? Is there clear proof ? Does it justify the breaking up of the family units and seperating all the children from the adults ?

here is the latest

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/15/sect.mothers/index.html

In a country, and this message board too at time, where marriage is worthless, where religion is said to be free, and even scoffed at, we as a nation have disrupted families, 416 children have been sperated from their mother and fathers.

no one has been arrested

all we see are allegations

Is this another Waco type deal ? Should we even be involved at all ? Is there any proof of any wrong doing ?

sachiko · 04-15-2008, 04:15 PM

Give it some time. The men who got those underage girls pregnant will be doing some prison time. And with a little luck, the "mothers" who allowed it to happen will be doing some time too.

BigTiny · 04-15-2008, 05:37 PM

When this first went down, I thought something did not seem right. Not the search itself, but the disposition of the folks inside. They carted everyone off, even little kids. I still haven't heard of any parents charged with any crimes.

Champlain Islander · 04-15-2008, 07:11 PM

Probably much more to come. The question of religious freedom will probably dictate the outcome. I think the Texas Leo's rushed to judge based on what many feel is a hoax. Was there really a call? From what I saw on the news the person who was supposed to be the man who beat and raped the girl who allegedly made the call wasn't even there at that location and hadn"™t been for years.

North Texan · 04-15-2008, 07:30 PM

I think a lot more will come of this, but it may be a while coming.

Polygamy and statutory rape are crimes. The evidence seems to indicate that both were regular occurrences at the compound. From the interviews I've seen and the statements I've read as reported by the news stations, the women don't really seem to be denying any of this. I don't know if they don't think it is wrong, or just don't want to admit to it, but they haven't done much to deny it. They act a lot like women that have been abused mentally if not physically by the men they were married to. The fact that the men seemed to be the sole providers just increases their influence over them that much more.

Aught Six · 04-15-2008, 09:21 PM

I'm going to put my libertarian side to the side and admit that I think these people are freaks, and they make me sick. You start locking up and abusing kids and I don't care what you think freedom of religion means in this country. Let them rot in prison.

BigTiny · 04-15-2008, 10:08 PM

The authorities have had plenty of time to interview those kids, but so far, no arrests. It bothers me that there was already a plan in place to go in there, and now that they are in, the original complainant cannot be found, and the supposed perp was far away, and had been for some time. This whole thing is going to blow up in their face, cost taxpayers millions, and, the worst part, any criminals they get with this will be freed and the evidence against them thrown out. I saw a story on Fox news about the many lawyers already volunteering to defend the sect members. There's blood in the water...

Big Duane · 04-16-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Give it some time. The men who got those underage girls pregnant will be doing some prison time. And with a little luck, the "mothers" who allowed it to happen will be doing some time too.

Time? Is that the way we do it now, displace hundreds of children, seperate them from their parents, with NO ONE being held or charged .... and wait for some time to pass? Is that the way you want it done daddyslittlegirl? Arrest now, find the charges later?

Quote:

I don't know if they don't think it is wrong, or just don't want to admit to it, but they haven't done much to deny it. They act a lot like women that have been abused mentally if not physically by the men they were married to. The fact that the men seemed to be the sole providers just increases their influence over them that much more.

North Texanso what on the above ? Does the above, if true, give the govt the right to go in and take almost 500 children from their parents? Based on what ?

Quote:

Polygamy and statutory rape are crimes. The evidence seems to indicate that both were regular occurrences at the compound.

If there was evidence, don't you think there would be an arrest ?

C'mon, there is no evidence. Its a huge skyscraper of a shake down and the cornerstone of the building is a small carboard box. They have very very little to work with, and they used it in the name of "saving the kids" to violate the rights of all the people there.

Didn't they ?

Quote:

I'm going to put my libertarian side to the side and admit that I think these people are freaks, and they make me sick. You start locking up and abusing kids and I don't care what you think freedom of religion means in this country. Let them rot in prison.

Aught Sixwhat was done ? We know whats been ACCUSED, but what has been proven ? In fact, isn't this all based on a supposed 911 call from a girl that cannot be located?

Funny you say "locking up and abusing kids" - thats exactly what the govt is doing right now. Those kids are locked up, abused because they're not allowed to be with their parents, their whole lives have been displaced in the last 8-10 days based on what ?

I'm not defending the cult that appears to be there, but c'mon guys, the govt just destroyed the lives of hundreds of people, right in front of your eyes, based on nothing, with no arrests and ya'll are clapping your hands for it ? What happened to having evidence ?

This smells of WACO all over again without the fire and bloodshed and they're lucky it didn't go that road.

North Texan · 04-16-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

If there was evidence, don't you think there would be an arrest ?

Just because arrests weren't made on the spot doesn't mean there won't be arrests. The authorities did not serve arrest warrants, they served search warrants.

Quote:

C'mon, there is no evidence. Its a huge skyscraper of a shake down and the cornerstone of the building is a small carboard box. They have very very little to work with, and they used it in the name of "saving the kids" to violate the rights of all the people there.

Girls under the age of 17 and pregnant or already with children IS evidence. This isn't a narcotics bust where mere possession implicates everyone. It will take some time, interrogation, and testing to find the guilty parties. The lack of cooperation with some of the women, who may also be subject to criminal responsibility, also slows things down.

cr422 · 04-16-2008, 06:49 AM

The people who interview these kids have to be certified to do so. They don't want to be accused of putting accusations into the kids minds. They need to come up with irrefutable evidence of what really happened.

The fact that we find underaged girls, not only pregnant, but having given birth previously makes it obvious that there was abuse. But keep in mind that these people were brought up to believe that this abuse was part of God's plan.

Even in the case of acknowledged abuse in normal society, children are often extremely reluctant to testify against parents. They fear being placed in a home that might be worse than the one they come from and to which they have adjusted. They may fear not being believed in court and being returned to even more abuse at home.

But these kids don't even know that the way they were treated is wrong. They have been raised in a society run by pedophiles and are not aware of any other life.

They may have to run DNA tests to determine which of the men were abusers. You have no obligation to report child abuse unless you occupy certain positions, teachers and doctorsfor example. So they can't charge men who failed to report if they can't prove they were abusers. They can charge the mothers who failed to report for not protecting their children, but that may involve DNA tests for all we know. And I'm not sure how admissible that would be. Certainly time consuming and expensive.

This is not like watching Law and Order where the whole problem is dealt with in an hour.

We can hope that in the end, enough of the perverts will be convicted and imprisoned to break up this pedophile club. And we can also hope that, in the meantime, the mothers and the children will come to realize that this type of lifestyle is not acceptable in a civilized society.