Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
Has anybody noticed how liberals and conservatives (general use labels) tend to have some irregularities in their thinking? For instance, in general:
Liberals are pro-abortion, pro-doctor assisted suicide and yet firmly opposed to the death penalty. Conservatives, on the other hand, are usually just the opposite although there can be some abck and forth thoughts on doctor assisted suicide.
Liberals generally want to see the government take more of your money and spend it on social programs that redistribute money to poorer people but don't want the government to tell you what drugs to use, how to have sex or who to marry. Conservatives almost uniformly oppose tax increases or most forms of wealth redistribution and yet generally prefer having the government tell us what drugs to use, how to have sex and who to marry.
Liberals generally want us to avoid wars, not partake in nation building or tell other nations how to run their own countries yet often think other nations, the UN or World Court should tell us how to run our country and we should redistribute our wealth to these other nations to help them reform their countries. Conservatives are generally just the opposite on every single one of these issues.
This post isn't meant as a means to begin a bag on each other topic but to hopefully stimulate some thinking as to why each of us tends to have some different opinions like those above that at times seem contradictory.
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RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
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Liberals are pro-abortion, pro-doctor assisted suicide and yet firmly opposed to the death penalty.Â* Conservatives, on the other hand, are usually just the opposite although there can be some abck and forth thoughts on doctor assisted suicide.
That one has kind of puzzled me, too. Liberals seem perfectly willing to accept an unborn child as non-human, so killing it is ok. Yet, it is morally wrong to kill somebody because they are human, even if they would kill everyone they could get their hands on, and their mere existence constitutes a threat to society. What blows my mind is they are willing to believe everything every criminal ever tells them, no matter how much of a stretch it is. It is like they are incapable of looking at the evidence and deciding on their own.
I feel like if you execute criminals right the first time, you won't have problems with repeat offenders. I think the death penalty should be expanded and used more often. I would like to see it as an option for all violent offenders, and automatic for conviction on the third felony.
I don't have a problem with doctor-assisted suicide. I believe a person's life is their own, and it is their decision when it has become a life not worth living.
Can't really say I'm pro- or anti-abortion. It doesn't really bother me one way or another.
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Liberals generally want to see the government take more of your money and spend it on social programs that redistribute money to poorer people but don't want the government to tell you what drugs to use, how to have sex or who to marry.Â* Conservatives almost uniformly oppose tax increases or most forms of wealth redistribution and yet generally prefer having the government tell us what drugs to use, how to have sex and who to marry.
I have a problem with wealth redistribution. It takes away the economic incentives that create new ideas and build new businesses. It in effect says we should all be living at the same level, whether we work hard or not. Where is the incintive for hard work and saving when the government takes your money away from you and gives it to those who do not work so they may lead a lifestyle similar to yours?
I have no problem with making drug use illegal. Most users can't keep a job, so they resort to things like stealing, forging, and identity theft to pay for their habits. Some of them even become dangerous.
I don't believe the government should recognize marriage. To me, marriage is a religious issue, and the government has no business nor authority to regulate, including regulating spousal benefits provided by private industry.
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Liberals generally want us to avoid wars, not partake in nation building or tell other nations how to run their own countries yet often think other nations, the UN or World Court should tell us how to run our country and we should redistribute our wealth to these other nations to help them reform their countries.Â* Conservatives are generally just the opposite on every single one of these issues.
I can't say I agree with either side on this. I don't believe in government-sponsored charity. If people want to spend their money to help others, they can. But it is not the government's responsibilty to take money from me and give money to the causes of others that I may or may not agree with.
I think most conservatives are a little too willing to use our military. Take the current situation. I would preferred not to have taken sides in the Iran/Iraq war to begin with, nor aided during the Soviet invasion.
I would also liked to have seen us take care of business in Afghanistan before heading to Iraq. I would have preferred to have taken out Hussein the first time, but we didn't. But we didn't. Now we are in two countries at the sime time, dividing our military and our attention.
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RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
Cal, this is an excellent post...
There are countless analyses that wecanmake of these trends in political thought, but perhaps the most important is that different people can make such different sense of the world around them. Furthermore, those outlooks arenot always static. Development of both the person and the world around them can alter these kinds of beliefs drastically, sometimes seemingly overnight.
RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
I notice that frequently. I think what it comes down to is there are reallyfour poles on the political compass. Liberal, Conservative, Statist, and Libertarian. Members of groups that lean right or left can be miles apart depending onwhether they lean statist, or lib.
I think alot of people in this country WANT to buy into a given party for a feeling of inclusiveness. Regardless of contradictions in party rhetoric, they follow any given leader as a means of maintaining that group identity.
Not to drag this discussion in any one direction, but I think the latest Bush/Republican administration is a good example of people changing values to fit the party instead of choosing a party/leaders to fittheir values. Traditionally republicans have been small-government, fiscally tight. Bush comes in and begins the wildest spending spree this country has ever seen, expanding governmentsize to a size not seen since FDR. Even so, republicans (generalizing) don't have a problem with it, as the leader is makingthe decisions, so they change their values to fit the new group identity.
As a relatively new voter, I found myself in a conundrum when it came time toregister for aparty. I agree with some of the republican ideas, and some of the democrat ideas, but I'm just as distant to both parties as I am connected.
I support abortion and doctor assisted suicide rights, yet I also feel a swift, certain, and severe criminal punishment like the death penalty has its place for particularly egregious crimes where there is overwhelming certainty of guilt. I align with the Democrats/ACLU on much of the constitution, but we greatly differ on the 2nd, I think it should be just as protected as the rest. I am absolutely againstuniversal health care, andcertain welfare programs,but I think Medicare/Medicaid, and some more restricted welfare should be kept in place and even expanded,aiming the programsto helpproductive Americans in need, and not raise those that are physically capable, butlazy and unwilling to produce.I believe in capitalism, but I believe in a changing world economy some tariffs need to be emplaced to protect the American manufacturing base. I'm not a dove, but I'm not a hawk either. War is necessary in places like Afghanistan, but Iraq was gone into under false pretenses, and somebody in this administration should be held criminally accountable.
Unfortunately, in popular American politics there is no party that is contradiction free, so it comes down to voting for the lesser of evils, which always ends in disappointment. Maybe its time to start voting 3rd party.
RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
"Not to drag this discussion in any one direction, but I think the latest Bush/Republican administration is a good example of people changing values to fit the party instead of choosing a party/leaders to fittheir values."
Yours is a very good post. However, I have heartburn with this one. It seems to me that the party changed to fit theadministration. Republicans either did not have the guts to stand up andcriticize the administration or their criticism was ignored. The Republican House and Senate went to hades in lock step with Bush.
RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
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Yours is a very good post. However, I have heartburn with this one. It seems to me that the party changed to fit theadministration. Republicans either did not have the guts to stand up andcriticize the administration or their criticism was ignored. The Republican House and Senate went to hades in lock step with Bush.
When bipolar political fights brew and elections go down to the wire, it is so easy to entice people to join the crowd. There is safety in numbers, and no one wants to be left out, particularly with so many voices screaming for recognition.
RE: Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
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ORIGINAL: falcon
"Not to drag this discussion in any one direction, but I think the latest Bush/Republican administration is a good example of people changing values to fit the party instead of choosing a party/leaders to fittheir values."
Yours is a very good post. However, I have heartburn with this one. It seems to me that the party changed to fit theadministration. Republicans either did not have the guts to stand up andcriticize the administration or their criticism was ignored. The Republican House and Senate went to hades in lock step with Bush.
Thats exactly what I meant to imply, but apparently I was a little too careful in choosing my languagein an attemptavoid a flame war. Bush is not a republican in the traditional sense, but the party and its followers have marched on with him regardless. They changed THEIR beliefs to match HIS. Many people would rather change themselves tobetterreflect a given leader than face being ostracized by the group they choose to identify with.
Irregularities in Liberal and Conservative Thinking
