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Old 03-06-2008, 01:56 PM   #1
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Default The Social Security "Trust Fund"

The words "trust fund" denote a fund with money in "trust." Except for the social security "trust fund" and a few other federal "trust funds" which have no funds in "trust."

Over the past 40 years the fine politicians in DC have siphoned off two trillion of our "surplus" social security dollars and "invested" them in "government securities." DOD, HUD, Homeland Security and a bunch of other federal agencies all owe money to the social security "trust fund."

This spending of the social security surplus has had the effect of reducing the deficit. Except it did not reduce the deficit one bit. That money, plus interest, is owed to US citizens.

Now the good news. Four trillion dollars of our nine trillion national debt, exclusive of interest, is owed to the social security "trust fund" and other "trust funds."That's right there are several other federal "trust funds that are owed two trillion dollars."

Several years ago I watched the social security actuary address a group of politicians and lawyers for over two hours. At no time did the idiot ever say that there no money in the "trust fund." None of the other idiots ever questioned him on this.

Much of the ballyhoo over social security is because those putrid politicians who stole our social security money have no intention of ever paying it back.Somewhere down the roadHUDand DODare going to take a hitto pay back social security-ain't ever going to happen.

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Old 03-06-2008, 02:58 PM   #2
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Dah, but they also had no other place to quote "Invest it". They should have never been in the business of retirement accounts. Last thing I want is some pencil head geek choosing what market to blow up into a bubble or which one he wants to crash by moving a trillion dollars around tomorrow.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:08 PM   #3
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Well said falcon.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:19 PM   #4
 
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

yep
stolen , now we just raise retirement age, For the time being it is the only thing in the black. As long as Boomers die on schedule it may be OK.
The really really big lie of all time. As much as I always hated SS the situation now is just a scam. Look up the pie chart, trust me the government owes us more money than CHINA, a lot more. I tell everyone retire as soon as possible. The rats make me sick. we have been paying for a welfare state for the last 50- 60 years and they they try to make it look like we should feel guilty. It is all figured out. Pure robbery.My guess is if they hadn't robbed it we could all retire in luxury.[:@]
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:24 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Quote:
Dah, but they also had no other place to quote "Invest it". They should have never been in the business of retirement accounts. Last thing I want is some pencil head geek choosing what market to blow up into a bubble or which one he wants to crash by moving a trillion dollars around tomorrow.
Neither did I but we been paying in for all those years. You are changing the subject. Don't play politics and give me the party line with me pal.That was the line 50 years ago and the same guys talking it when they got the chance did nothing.In fact the biggest increase in debt was by those boys. I' ve been had and that is all there is to it.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:35 PM   #6
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Venator1

Quote:
Dah, but they also had no other place to quote "Invest it". They should have never been in the business of retirement accounts. Last thing I want is some pencil head geek choosing what market to blow up into a bubble or which one he wants to crash by moving a trillion dollars around tomorrow.
Neither did I but we been paying in for all those years. You are changing the subject. Don't play politics and give me the party line with me pal.That was the line 50 years ago and the same guys talking it when they got the chance did nothing.In fact the biggest increase in debt was by those boys. I' ve been had and that is all there is to it.
Who is changing the subject? Please explain where in the world was the Government suppose to invest the money then if it wasn't Government bonds? Were they just suppose to stick it under a mattress?
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Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'

"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:41 PM   #7
 
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Well maybe you were not around when every time you turned around the sob's were raising the amount you had to contribute [:'(] Go tell it to someone else, not me. I really feel sorry for them they had so much money they didn't know what to do What were they ever to do.
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:42 PM   #8
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

There was a big fuss during the 2000 election about the socialsecurity "trust fund." Bush promised not to spend any of the social security surplus.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-22-2005/0002881028&EDATE=

"The crux of the real Social Security problem is simple. For more than 20
years the government (both Democrats and Republicans) has been "borrowing" and
spending (embezzling) every dollar of the Social Security trust fund, leaving
nothing to invest. President Bush, who pledged repeatedly during the 2000
election campaign not to touch any of the Social Security money, spent every
dime of the $509 billion in Social Security surplus generated during his first
term, and he continues to spend more than $400 million of Social Security
money each and every day. As the president continues to bleed the Social
Security program to death, he says he wants to strengthen it."
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:06 PM   #9
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Quote:
ORIGINAL: falcon

There was a big fuss during the 2000 election about the socialsecurity "trust fund." Bush promised not to spend any of the social security surplus.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-22-2005/0002881028&EDATE=

"The crux of the real Social Security problem is simple. For more than 20
years the government (both Democrats and Republicans) has been "borrowing" and
spending (embezzling) every dollar of the Social Security trust fund, leaving
nothing to invest. President Bush, who pledged repeatedly during the 2000
election campaign not to touch any of the Social Security money, spent every
dime of the $509 billion in Social Security surplus generated during his first
term, and he continues to spend more than $400 million of Social Security
money each and every day. As the president continues to bleed the Social
Security program to death, he says he wants to strengthen it."
It has been this way forever. This didn't just happen on Bush's watch.

Here is the scenario, Here is a check for $1000. If you're you and I, we can choose to put that money in a savings account, Money market, stock market, or under the mattress. However, it's not you or I, it's the Government. They had one option and one option only, Government bonds. It was set up that way from the get go. They were always lending themselves the money only until not to long ago did they quit keeping two sets of books.
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Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'

"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:29 PM   #10
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Default RE: The Social Security "Trust Fund"

Here is some more reading for you Falcon:

SOCIAL SECURITY DECEIT
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[/align]President Bush's call to allow Americans to take a portion of the money they pay as Social Security taxes to set up private retirement accounts has to be a good idea. Why? The more of what a person earns that's in his pocket and under his control, the better off he will be. At a later date, when the details of the president's plans are known, I'll address the various reform plans under debate. For now, let's look at some of the gross political deceit, lies and unkept promises that have become a part of Social Security.

Here's what a 1936 government Social Security pamphlet said: "After the first 3 years -- that is to say, beginning in 1940 -- you will pay, and your employer will pay, 1.5 cents for each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. ... Beginning in 1943, you will pay 2 cents, and so will your employer, for every dollar you earn for the next 3 years. ... And finally, beginning in 1949, twelve years from now, you and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year. ... That is the most you will ever pay."

Had Congress lived up to those promises, where $ 3,000 was the maximum earnings subject to Social Security tax, controlling for inflation today's $50,000-a-year wage earner would pay about $700 in Social Security taxes, as opposed to the more than $3,000 that he pays today.

The next big lie is from the same Social Security pamphlet: "Beginning November 24, 1936, the United States government will set up a Social Security account for you. ... The checks will come to you as a right." First, there's no Social Security account containing your money, but more importantly, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on two occasions that Americans have no legal right to Social Security payments.

In Helvering v. Davis (1937), the court held that Social Security was not an insurance program, saying, "The proceeds of both (employee and employer) taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like internal-revenue taxes generally, and are not earmarked in any way."

In a later decision, Flemming v. Nestor (1960), the court said, "To engraft upon Social Security system a concept of "˜accrued property rights' would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever-changing conditions which it demands ..." That flexibility and boldness mean Congress can constitutionally cut benefits, raise retirement age, raise Social Security taxes and do anything it wishes, including eliminating payments.

If a private retirement company reneged on its promises, we could take it to court. If Congress reneges on its promises, there's no judicial course of action whatsoever.

Vital to any Ponzi scheme, like Social Security, is the ability to recruit as many suckers as possible. In 1999, a little noticed part of President Clinton's plan to "save" Social Security was to force 5 million previously exempted employees into Social Security. If they were forced into Social Security, it would have created billions in additional revenue. Guess what. Twelve senators, including five Democrats -- Dianne Feinstein (D. Calif.), Barbara Boxer (D. Calif.), Christopher Dodd (D.-Conn.), Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) -- descended on the White House to demand that President Clinton not support forcing 5 million of their constituents into Social Security. They warned of the adverse impact on employees in terms of lower rates of return and lost flexibility.

Isn't that great? These are the same politicians who are now resisting President Bush's call to allow Americans to take a part of their Social Security taxes to put into private retirement accounts. If they'd go to bat for those 5 million workers to remain out of Social Security, to avoid the adverse impact of lower rates of return and lost flexibility, why would they fight to deny tens of millions of workers a right to use a portion of their taxes to do the same?
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Ronald Reagan: 'Everybody that is for abortion has already been born'

"I never said I was worth it. I only said I wouldn't do it for less " William F. Buckley Jr.
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