Clean water in the west

[pjourn]

I know many of you live in the west and many more of you travel here to hunt.
If you live or hunt in anywhere in the west, you have probably seen the impacts of irresponsible drilling. Right now, the Senate is considering the energy bill and as hunters, we should be pushing for two additions.
As westerners, we realize the importance of domestic oil and gas production. What we need is a common sense approach that will allow us to drill on public lands, while still leaving them intact for our children.
Currently, when constructing new well pads on public lands, oil and gas companies are exempt from storm water regulations. These are the rules that every other business including farms, ranches, construction companies and grocery stores are required to follow in order to keep our lands clean and our water safe.
Despite them fact that oil and gas companies are bringing in record profits and crude is at an all time high, D.C. oil lobbyists are pushing the Senate to leave our precious water resources unprotected.
Following the clean water act is not expensive or complicated. In fact, oil companies were only exempted from storm water provisions in 2005.
Another big concern for western hunters is categorical exclusions. Because of a loophole in federal energy policy, oil and gas companies can substantially expand drilling fields without getting any input from hunters or state fish and game departments.
Categorical exclusions allow lessees to add large numbers of wells without consulting state game and fish departments or receiving any public input.
We need our western Senators to stand up for the rights of hunters and anglers and close the categorical exemption loophole and demand that oil and gas companies follow the storm water provison in the clean water act.
If you are a hunter or angler who uses public lands, please call your senator and tell them to protect our hunting and angling resources.[/align]

[burniegoeasily]

First welcome to the board.

I live in Texas and was not aware of this. My brother is a Driller/Tool Pusher and he is required to lay down leech barriers. Not sure if that regulation is mandated from law, or company.

[Big Duane]

tell you what, as a non-resident hunter thats been gouged by the western states for way too long, fight it yourself, you'll not get any help from me, not even an email

Non-residents built and paid for the game that western states have, those same states jack the prices so high or place quotas as such that we can't even hunt there anymore ........ no, fight it yourself, be kinder to non-residents in the future and maybe things will change

how do you like those apples now that you're on the other side ?

[hillbillyhunter1]

ORIGINAL: Big Duane

tell you what, as a non-resident hunter thats been gouged by the western states for way too long, fight it yourself, you'll not get any help from me, not even an email

Non-residents built and paid for the game that western states have, those same states jack the prices so high or place quotas as such that we can't even hunt there anymore ........ no, fight it yourself, be kinder to non-residents in the future and maybe things will change

how do you like those apples now that you're on the other side ?

What a Crock of TOTAL BS, there BD.



Welcome to the boards pjourn.

In the future Water is going to become a more and more precious commodity and I personally believe that water rights are going to become as valuable as land.

Here in WV, we are governed by restrictions meant to stem the tide of pollution in the Chesapeke Bay Watershed. Many of these are ignored and ill-enforced.

However, there is no excuse for anyone to be outside the restrictions governing clean water.

One other thing that I can't understand about the West, is the amount of sprinkling used to promote green lawns while the rivers dry up as they run down hill. I know a lot of irrigation is needed for agricultural, but nobody in the West needs to have a green lawn for decoration in an area where water is so precious. It's a little hard to believe as here in the east, I hope my lawn will dry up so I don't have to mow it 6 times a month.

Take care

[burniegoeasily]

hillbilly
Dont worry. Its not as easy to have a green lawn as you would think. Most West Texas towns have water restrictions. If you water your lawn, you will get nailed with a big fine. Some areas even increase your taxes if you do not catch run off water from your house, or do have a drought tolerant yard. El Paso use to do this. Not sure if it is still the same way.

[hillbillyhunter1]

That's great to hear burnie. When I lived in Billings and Helena, I couldn't believe the people watering their lawns while the rest of the state was literally on fire. It seemed to me that a plush lawn out there was sort of a status symbol. People couldn't believe that I absolutely refused to water mine. I always said "who cares?? Who wants to sit home anyway and admire their lawn when they have an entire gorgeous state to go and do anything they want??"

I was more of a mind that i could either stay home and fool with the yard or go hunting/fishing. Not much of a choice there

[Big Duane]

What a Crock of TOTAL BS, there BD.

Tell me how many western states have you lived in ? How many of them have you hunted ? How much money do you send to them every spring for PP's ?

There is a huge non-resident descrimination in western states. Lets break down this original thread - and then I want you to respond in detail as to why its "TOTALBS" and a "CROCK"

I know many of you live in the west and many more of you travel here to hunt.
If you live or hunt in anywhere in the west, you have probably seen the impacts of irresponsible drilling. Right now, the Senate is considering the energy bill and as hunters, we should be pushing for two additions.

I've lived out west and hunted it a lot over the past 15 years. I don't remember much in the way of "seeing" any impacts of irresponsible drilling. I will be going to western KS in 12 days, and I'll watch big bucks and oil/gas wells at the same time.

If you are a hunter or angler who uses public lands, please call your senator and tell them to protect our hunting and angling resources

You mean, using western public lands ? Like when I want to go to western WY and hunt a federal tract of lands but an REQUIRED BY STATE LAW to hire a $5000 guide to do so ? Or maybe for me to go to the Gila or Punsaunaunt or AZ strip to bowhunt mulies, but the tags are 1 in 20 years draw because only 2% are given to non-residents because the States and Western G&F and residents want it all to themselves ?

Or maybe you'd like to talk about a $800 tag for elk, which is what I pay, vs a $50 tag for the same hunt you pay ? All on the SAME PUBLC LANDS ?

Maybe you'd like to talk about how non-residents fund 60-70% of the budgets of your western states G&F commissions ? Fact is, non-res money BUILT the great western hunting that exists today, and for the most part, non-residents can't enjoy it any more. Use non-res money, make it really good hunting, then severaly restrict non-residents. Beautiful plan isn't it ?

LOL ...... you want me to send emails to help your western states out, the same western states that severely restrict my chances to go to the millions of acres of public lands that are out there and hunt ? You want ME to help you out, after the raping I recieve every year on non-resident tags ?

No, I won't do it

[burniegoeasily]

Big Duan
Non residence fees are everywhere. That is the whole reason I dont go up north and hunt with my brother. I cant afford the residence fees.

[hillbillyhunter1]

You are correct about there being a significant discrepancy in not only price but opportunity for non residents in just about every state.

What's a crock is you (and many in theEast, etc) crying about it when it comes to YOUR opportunity in the West. You have the option (provided you can overcome whateverobstacles) to MOVE anywhere you want. If huntingout west means that much either pay or move. I moved. I will move again (next time, permanently).

As forpublic land and you can go out and pick daisies or birdwatch anytime you want, but the state (THANKFULLY NOT THE FED(for many reasons))manages the animals within their borders.

As for WY in particular, I agree you shouldn't have to get a guide and hopefully that will change. Until then, there's plenty of other states and plenty of non "back-country" areas to hunt in WY as well.

If you lived in a state that has an extra desirable critter in it to hunt, i'm sure your opinion of non-resident fees would change with the wind.

Either way, you think thata state you enjoy going to should havethe most important natural resource damaged for no good reasonbecause "you've never seen evidence of it"??

Yet another "crock".

[pjourn]

Whether or not you think state regulations regarding non-residents are fair or not, the simple fact remains that public lands are important to keepinng our hunting tradition alive. I grew up in Texas, where there aren't any public lands. Even with non-resident fees, it is cheaper to go west and hunt public land than it is to pay to hunt private land in Texas.
The idea that oil and gas companies are getting rich on federal land and ignoring the laws everyone else has to follow makes me mad. It should make you mad as well Duane, but I suppose not everyone has the best interest of future generations in mind. That includes many of our senators.
Duane, if you haven't seen muddy streams, drilling rig filled meadows and other signs of oil and gas damage, then I guess you probably haven't looked too hard. You won't find much drilling damage in Kanas, because they don't have any federal lands to drill on.
Rules are different for public, private, state and federal lands. Federal lands (forest service and BLM) have the most lax standards.
I suppose this boils down to two options. You can spend 30 seconds to call your Senators and ask them to support clean water rules for drilling on public lands, or you can sit there and do nothing.
If you do nothing, all that happens is that sportsmen lose their voice to the deep pockets of oil and gas. Personally, I don't trust Exxon to speak for my best interest as a hunter.