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Old 07-16-2007, 03:23 PM   #1
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Default This pizzes me off.........

The war mongers keep saying how well equipped our troops are , OK you support our troops guys defend this B.S. Who is defending our troops it sure isn't our leadership. I guess we couldn't afford them huh.......

The whole story is on U.S.A. todays web page.[]

Even as the Pentagon balked at buying MRAPs for U.S. troops, USA TODAY found that the military pushed to buy them for a different fighting force: the Iraqi army.
On Dec. 22, 2004 "” two weeks after President Bush told families of servicemembers that "we're doing everything we possibly can to protect your loved ones" "” a U.S. Army general solicited ideas for an armored vehicle for the Iraqis. The Army had an "extreme interest" in getting troops better armor, then-brigadier general Roger Nadeau told a subordinate looking at foreign technology, in an e-mail obtained by USA TODAY.
In a follow-up message, Nadeau clarified his request: "What I failed to point out in my first message to you folks is that the US Govt is interested not for US use, but for possible use in fielding assets to the Iraqi military forces."
In response, Lt. Col. Clay Brown, based in Australia, sent information on two types of MRAPs manufactured overseas. "By all accounts, these are some of the best in the world," he wrote. "If I were fitting out the Iraqi Army, this is where I'd look (wish we had some!)"
The first contract for what would become the Iraqi Light Armored Vehicle "” virtually identical to the MRAPs sought by U.S. forces then and now, and made in the United States by BAE Systems "” was issued in May 2006. The vehicles, called Badgers, began arriving in Iraq 90 days later, according to BAE. In September 2006, the Pentagon said it would provide up to 600 more to Iraqi forces. As of this spring, 400 had been delivered.
The rush to equip the Iraqis stood in stark contrast to the Pentagon's efforts to protect U.S. troops.
In February 2005, two months after Nadeau solicited ideas for better armor for the Iraqis and was told MRAPs were an answer, an urgent-need request for the same type of vehicle came from embattled Marines in Anbar province. The request, signed by then-brigadier general Dennis Hejlik, said the Marines "cannot continue to lose "¦ serious and grave casualties to IEDs "¦ at current rates when a commercial off-the-shelf capability exists to mitigate" them.
Officials at Marine headquarters in Quantico, Va., shelved the request for 1,169 vehicles. Fifteen months passed before a second request reached the Joint Chiefs and was approved. Those vehicles finally began trickling into Anbar in February, two years after the original request. Because of the delay, the Marines are investigating how its urgent-need requests are handled.
The long delay infuriates some members of Congress. "Every day, our troops are being maimed or killed needlessly because we haven't fielded this soon enough," says Rep. Gene Taylor, D-Miss. "The costs are in human lives, in kids who will never have their legs again, people blind, crippled. That's the real tragedy."
Not until two months ago did the Pentagon champion the MRAP for all U.S. forces. Gates made MRAPs the military's top priority. The plan is to build the vehicles as fast as possible until conditions warrant a change, according to a military official who has direct knowledge of the program but is not authorized to speak on the record. Thousands are in the pipeline at a cost so far of about $2.4 billion.
Gates said he was influenced by a press report "” originally in USA TODAY "” that disclosed Marine units using MRAPs in Anbar reported no deaths in about 300 roadside bombings in the past year. His tone was grave. "For every month we delay," he said, "scores of young Americans are going to die."
One reason officials put off buying MRAPs in significant quantities: They never expected the war to last this long. President Bush set the tone on May 1, 2003, six weeks after the U.S. invasion, when he declared on board the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
Gen. George Casey, the top commander in Iraq from June 2004 until February this year, repeatedly said that troop levels in Iraq would be cut just as soon as Iraqi troops took more responsibility for security. In March 2005, he predicted "very substantial reductions" in U.S. troops by early 2006. He said virtually the same thing a year later.
Casey wasn't the only optimist. In May 2005, Vice President Cheney declared that the insurgency was "in its last throes."
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:08 PM   #2
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Another greatly timed article to over shadow our success in the surge. Read it today and this is repeat of what was printed months ago with a little more gut renching stuff. War aint pretty but we are succeeding.

I reference the latest reason to surrender and pull out. Nothing about the surge but blaming the Iraqi goverment not doing enough.

Maliki, in reference to the thread, now says they are ready to take over. That was the plan all along.

I'm for winning not surrendering and retreating because we are in this war on terror for another decade. Last thing I want is to give Al Qaeda a victory. Let's bring on the Reaper.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:22 PM   #3
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........

"Another greatly timed article to over shadow our success in the surge."

Oh, yes, the surge: More like the trickle. A surge would have been the additional 300,000 troops that military leaders asked for at the beginning.

Yes, at thecost of serious casualties, US troops are takingparts of Iraq. Then the Iraqi army is supposed to hold the area that US troops took. Most often they are not able to do so. Many Iraqi troops are in collusion with the terrorists of whichever Isalmic cult that they belong do. Most Iraqi armyunits are, in reality, tribal militias. According to a senior US Army general,the number of combat effective Iraqi army battalions just went from 10 to 6.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:00 PM   #4
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[quote]The news from Anbar is the most promising. Only last fall, the Marines' leading intelligence officer there concluded that the U.S. had essentially lost the fight to al-Qaeda. Yet, just this week, the marine commandant, Gen. James Conway, returned from a four-day visit to the province and reported that we "have turned the corner.''

Why? Because, as Lt. Col. David Kilcullen, the Australian counterinsurgency adviser to Gen. David Petraeus, has written, 14 of the 18 tribal leaders in Anbar have turned against al-Qaeda. As a result, thousands of Sunni recruits are turning up at police stations where none could be seen before. For the first time, former insurgent strongholds such as Ramadi have a Sunni police force fighting essentially on our side. [\quote]

I know your unhappy about not putting 300,000 troops at risk and would like us to surrender right away. The fact is, our troops must be succeeding because the democrates don't site the warand theviolence and our troops can't winthis week for the reason to pull out. Their rant this weeks is "The Iraqi goverment hasn't done enough, let's punish them." Yeah that makes perfect sense.

Hey Falcon, what's your alternative to us winning over there? If we pull out and Al Qaeda takes over, what's the trigger point to redeploy back there?
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:40 PM   #5
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bawanajim

The war mongers keep saying how well equipped our troops are
Thats total BS, a lady I work with brother just got deployed. He's wearing vietnam era helmet, not the kevlar kind.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:50 PM   #6
 
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sjsfire

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bawanajim

The war mongers keep saying how well equipped our troops are
Thats total BS, a lady I work with brother just got deployed. He's wearing vietnam era helmet, not the kevlar kind.
Sorry, but that is just not possible. The old helmets were replaced long ago. The only place you can still find them is on Navy ships where they are used for DC crews. Even the Air Force reservists are issued kevlar.

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Old 07-17-2007, 06:33 AM   #7
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........

The "war" is not going well and has just become a political football. The present administration went on one unwavering course of action much to the opposition of many European countries and need to see it through with a successful conclusion if they want a shot at re-election in 2008. Unfortunately it is all politics now rather than what is good for either this Country or Iraq. To withdraw now, gives the Democrats an advantage and says to the American voters that the GOP was wrong. If this happensthere isn't a Republican presidential candidate that could win in the next election. I believe the Bush bunch wants to slowly transition out of Iraqin a simple save face measure which will if timed right give them a chance in 2008. In the unlikely event that the Democratic controlled Congress gets enough Republican legislators to follow their lead and vote a margin to beat back a presidential veto, we will have a Democratic POTUS in 2008. Many of those turncoat Republican Senators will probably be re-elected because they were following their conscience and doing the right thing. Some are probably motivated by ethics and others are doing it for personal gain. For whatever reason, I feel that many more will vote for withdrawal within the next few months. When you think about the reasons for going to war in the first place and the failed planning and implementation for practically everything after the initial invasion and fall of Saddam, one can question what is really going on. The American people have spoken in a vast majority that they do not approve of this war and want it to end. This dissent doesn"™t make them unpatriotic it is simply the general public exercising their rights to free speech. This call for the US to get out of Iraq is echoed by the present Iraqi government which we set up. The Maliki government is sectarian in nature and its hope for survival rest with their majority control rather than the US.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:45 AM   #8
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........

What really pisses me off is the fact that we have the means to protect the most valued part of our military yet we chose not to.
Quote:
The request, signed by then-brigadier general Dennis Hejlik, said the Marines "cannot continue to lose "¦ serious and grave casualties to IEDs "¦ at current rates when a commercial off-the-shelf capability exists to mitigate" them.
We have elected men who chose to place our people in harms way yet chose to send them unequipped.Now those same men can't understand why we as Americans do not support this befuddled excuse for a war.

We have the men and they should have the equipment to do the job that was asked of them . In short changing our fighting men we have short change what America it self stands for.We are the best and we should have the best equipment.Maybe we can buy some from China that way we could save a little cash while we support our troops . [:'(]
What a joke this administration has become.......
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Another greatly timed article to over shadow our success in the surge."
Sorta like another greatly timed Bin Laden sighting.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:52 AM   #10
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Default RE: This pizzes me off.........

Quote:
ORIGINAL: bawanajim

What really pisses me off is the fact that we have the means to protect the most valued part of our military yet we chose not to.
Quote:
The request, signed by then-brigadier general Dennis Hejlik, said the Marines "cannot continue to lose "¦ serious and grave casualties to IEDs "¦ at current rates when a commercial off-the-shelf capability exists to mitigate" them.
We have elected men who chose to place our people in harms way yet chose to send them unequipped.Now those same men can't understand why we as Americans do not support this befuddled excuse for a war.

We have the men and they should have the equipment to do the job that was asked of them . In short changing our fighting men we have short change what America it self stands for.We are the best and we should have the best equipment.Maybe we can buy some from China that way we could save a little cash while we support our troops . [:'(]
What a joke this administration has become.......
You can't sit there and blame this administration. I hear what you say but the fact is your seeing how slow the goverment reacts to change. It's inherent in any goverment and any administration. Unfortunately our enemy isn't bogged down with such overhead.
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