OSHA is re-writting some of thier laws and they are planning on reclassifying all ammo, powder, and primers and putting them in the same catagory as nitroglycerin and blasting caps. We have until July 12th to contact our reps and Senators, and OSHA to tell them what we think of this. If this goes through, there will be no more ammo. on the shelfs, no more reloading supplys on the shelfs. This is no joke. This is a backdoor attempt to take away our 2nd amendment rights. No ammo, no guns! I'm going to post a link to another web sight that has more info. including links to OSHA and to find your reps and Senators. We all need to Zumbo OSHA right now. http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52585195&an=0&am p;page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
Does anyone ever read this stuff? Looks like folks are readyto cry wolf because someone else who never read the proposed reg tells them to. SAAMI asked for the changes to the OSHA reg. Now they are whining.
falcon, can you give me a link to where SAAMI asked for powder, primers, and ammo. to be unbrellaed with nitroglycerin and blasting caps? If it happens, we're screwed.
This threat to our 2nd amendment rights is worse than those that come from the people in and around the Brady bunch, is it not?
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
"falcon, can you give me a link to where SAAMI asked for powder, primers, and ammo. to be unbrellaed with nitroglycerin and blasting caps? If it happens, we're screwed."
First let me explain that OSHA is up dating their regs to conform to ATF and military regs. OSHA is not putting black powder primers or anything else in with niroglycerine. i've been in Explosive Ordnance Disposal since 1959. i advise companies and a few countries on ammunition storage,handling and destruction. Go to the OSHA web site and click on the proposed OSHA rule. i just posted this on another site.
First the proposed OSHA reg updates and brings OSHA regulations in line with what the rest of the federal government is doing. If you want to really understand what OSHA proposes then print off the document and study it. Do not take anyone elses word for it: Not NSSF, NRA, Rush Limbaugh and especially not SAAMI.
"The proposed rule indiscriminately treats ammunition, powder and primers as "śexplosives."ť"
Ammunition, powder and primers have always been treated as "explosives."
i will attempt to show the way that the various explosive categories are broken down. All explosives are classed into one of six Hazard Classes/Divisions. Small arms ammunition under .50 caliber falls into 1.4 S. Black Powder falls into 1.1D.
This is exactly how the US military, and BATFE do it. As a matter of fact, it is how the UNO does it. Yep, that is UNO as in United Nations Organization. Over 200 countries have signed off on a uniform system.
1.1 Mass Explosion This includes black powder in 1.1D
1.2 Non-Mass Explosion, Fragment Producing
1.3 Mass Fire, Minor Blast or Fragments
1.4 Moderate Fire, No Blast or Fragments Small Arms ammo under .50 claiber falls into 1.4S
1.5 Explosive Substance Very Insensitive, Fragment Producing With Mass Explosion Hazard
1.6 Explosive Substance, Extremely Insensitive
Sorry that this post looks like the Dead Sea Scrolls but this is how i know to explain it all. This proposed rule change has been posted since 13 April without comment from industry or the pro gun groups. Now it is suddenly a big issue. i don't think so. BTW, OSHA regulations do not even apply to businesses with fewer than ten employees.
It gets worse. SAAMI petitioned OSHA for the change. See page 18793 of the proposed regulations. This quote is verbatim from the proposed OSHA regulation.
"On July 29, 2002, OSHA received a
petition (the Petition) from the Institute
of Makers of Explosives (IME) and the
Sporting Arms and Ammunition
Manufacturers"™ Institute (SAAMI) to
revise the standard. A copy of the
Petition can be found at Docket No.
OSHA"“S031"“2006"“0665 (Ex. 2"“1). IME
is an association of manufacturers of
high explosives and other companies
that distribute explosives or provide
other related services and the SAAMI is
an association of manufacturers of
sporting firearms, ammunition, and
related components. The Petition
claimed that § 1910.109 does not reflect
significant technological and safety
advances made by the explosives
industry since the standard was
promulgated. It further contended that
the standard contains outdated
references, classifications, and
jurisdiction-related provisions that do
not accurately represent the current
regulatory environment.
The Petition requested OSHA to make
a number of changes to the standard,
including the following, and provided
draft regulatory language:
"˘ Exclude the manufacture of
explosives from the PSM requirements
of § 1910.119 and incorporate revised
PSM requirements for the manufacture
of explosives into § 1910.109;
"˘ Replace references to outdated DOT
explosives classifications with the
current DOT classification system;
"˘ Eliminate the provisions in
§ 1910.109 covering the storage of
explosives and the construction of
magazines because they are regulated by
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms, and Explosives (ATF);
"˘ Eliminate provisions in § 1910.109
applicable to the transportation of
explosives on public highways because
such transportation is regulated by DOT;
"˘ Update provisions for guarding
against accidental initiation by sources
of extraneous electricity;
"˘ Include provisions governing the
intra-plant transportation of explosives;
"˘ Include provisions for the use of
nonelectric detonation systems;
"˘ Revise provisions regarding the
crimping of detonators to safety fuse;
"˘ Update provisions for clearing the
blasting area of unauthorized personnel;
and
"˘ Update the provisions for the
design of bulk delivery and mixing
vehicles and of mixing equipment.
In response to the Petition, OSHA
carefully reviewed the requirements of
the current standard and other related
OSHA standards. It analyzed the
recommendations as well as the draft
regulatory language provided in the
Petition. OSHA also examined the
regulations of other federal agencies
relating to explosives and consulted
with interested parties about the need to
revise the standard. Apart from IME and
SAAMI, these interested parties
included the International Society of
Explosives Engineers (ISEE), the
American Pyrotechnics Association
(APA), the United Steel Workers of
America (USWA), and the Paper, Allied-
Industrial, Chemical and Energy
Workers International (PACE). In
addition, OSHA consulted with other
Federal agencies about their explosives
regulations and procedures. These
Federal agencies included the DOT,
ATF, the Interagency Committee on
Explosives (ICE), the Department of
Defense Explosives Safety Board
(DDESB), the Consumer Product Safety
Commission (CPSC), and the Mine
Safety and Health Administration.
Based upon its review of the Petition
and the standard, OSHA has concluded
that the following actions are
appropriate. These actions are discussed
in greater detail in the summary and
explanation section of the proposed rule
(see section III).
A. Update the Standard
Workplace hazards associated with
explosives activities pose significant
risks to employees. OSHA has
determined that the existing standard
needs to be updated to adequately
protect employees from these risks."
SAAMI asked that the reg be updated and changed. Now they are whining that the sky is falling. Rich Patterson, the SAAMI guy at the NSSF refused to talk with me yesterday on this issue.
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I love Christmas lights. They remind me of the people who voted for Obama. They all hang together; half of them don't work, and the ones that do, aren't that bright.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do
not understand, no explanation is possible.
A golf course is a willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range.
The only part that we should possibly worry about is the regulation of retailers who sell small arms ammunition, black powderand re-loading components. In reality, most retail establishments, especially in the larger cities, already comply with most of those regulations as they comply withcity regulations, fire code and insurance company rules.
Currently,most retail establishments do notdisplay or sell black powder, indeed, many display a very limited quantity of smokeless powder: Some do not display any smokeless powder.Additionally,savvy retail establishments do not allow smoking anywhere near their storage area.
well, just to add confusion, I'm going to paste a cope of an Email that a guy on another board got from Paterson, which makes it sound like SAAMI is calling for more time to review the proposed changes. Now, if SAAMI called for the changes, why are they calling for a time extension to review the propossal?
here's the Email:
Thank you for your email and concern...we have been dealing with transportation and storage issues (among others!) for decades. Most people do not realize the serious implications these sometimes innocuous-sounding regulations can have on the shooting sports and firearm ownership/use.
We share your concern that proposed new changes to 29 CFR 1910.109 may include requirements that are unduly restrictive and not supported by science. SAAMI has requested a 60 day extension to fully review, evaluate and comment on these proposed changes. Once we complete this review and evaluation, we will post our comments on the SAAMI web site (www.saami.org). I will personally notify you when the comments are available. At that point, appropriate letters from you and your members to OSHA would be extremely helpful!
Thank you again. In the meantime, please let me know if you have any other questions or comments!
Richard Patterson
Managing Director
Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, Inc.
11 Mile Hill Road
Newtown, CT 06470-2359
Help us understand falcon since it looks like you've got more inside scoop than anyone else that I know!
And on edit, why if there's nothing new about these changes to worry about, why is the NRA-ILA putting out the word as if there IS something to worry about?
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A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have.
"Help us understand falcon since it looks like you've got more inside scoop than anyone else that I know!
And on edit, why if there's nothing new about these changes to worry about, why is the NRA-ILA putting out the word as if there IS something to worry about."
i'm a 50 year member of the NRA and really believe in that organization:However, now i wonder if they know what they are doing.i called the NRA representative the other day about the proposed OSHA regulation.It became readily apparent that he had not even read the proposed regulation. He was surprised when i had him read the part where SAAMI requested changes to the existing regulations. He stated: I will call the NRA lawyers." i also called Rich Patterson of SAAMI who refused to take my call.
All thehype about OSHA regulating transportation is just not true. All the hype about powder, primers and small arms ammunition being "re-classified as explosives" is not true: They have always been called explosives.These organizations gloss over the potentially serious part, the regulation of over the counter retail establishments who sell ammunition and re-loading components. This would be new territory for OSHA. Here an overzealous OSHA could have a very damaging impact on us. Large catalog and on-line retailerswould not be adversly impacted.
There is a lesson to be learned here. When a government regulatory agency pretty much leaves your industry alone, do not rock the boat. SAAMI rocked the boat and it will be the retailers and consumers who pay if this becomes law. Every US federal government agency is lookingfor new folks to regulate. Retailers of ammunition and reloading components did not ask to be regulated.
OSHA after you ammo. and reloading supplys
