H.R. 1592???? So much for freedom...

HuntingEd · 06-20-2007, 07:15 AM

Any of you seen this bill?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1592

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55392

Some people are saying that they are attacking our freedom of speech & thought!!

"H.R. 1592 is a discriminatory measure that criminalizes thoughts, feelings, and beliefs [and] has the potential of interfering with religious liberty and freedom of speech,"

Charlie P · 06-20-2007, 07:24 AM

) In General-
[ul]`(1) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, OR NATIONAL ORIGIN- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person--

2) OFFENSES INVOLVING ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, GENDER, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER IDENTITY, OR DISABILITY-
[ul]`(A) IN GENERAL- Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person--

Maybe I'm missing the part about freedom of speech in this bill?
[/ul][/ul]

HuntingEd · 06-20-2007, 07:26 AM

Charlie P - I too was confused by the legal jargon in the bill but still didnt see anything other than actually hurting someone. Im not sure where people are getting the idea about thinking or speaking......

... but im not a lawyer and w/ all the rucuss this is causing I just wanted to see what others thought.

Charlie P · 06-20-2007, 07:28 AM

They why post aboput a double standard if you can't figure out what the problem is either?

HuntingEd · 06-20-2007, 07:33 AM

Agreed, I was reading more after I posted.... Edited original post.

But how come people are claiming it makes speaking a crime then?

HuntingEd · 06-20-2007, 07:39 AM

Maybe this line:

`(1) such certifying individual has reasonable cause to believe that the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person was a motivating factor underlying the alleged conduct of the defendant; and

Sounds like they make your sentance worse if you acted on a bias or belief. Other than just hate??

I think thats whats causing the rucuss, correct me if im wrong.

cr422 · 06-20-2007, 07:41 AM

Section 8 says nothing in the bill shall be construed as to interfere with expressive conduct protected by the Constitution.

I don't think we need hate crimes legislation to deal with activities that are already crimes. But I don't see where this bill interferes with freedom of expression.

BenGarrett · 06-20-2007, 07:52 AM

Look at what has happened in other countries after hate crime laws were put into effect. It's merely a foot in the door.

As for the bill in question, yes it absolutely does hinder freedom of speech (and freedom of thought). Let's say that I say that all homosexuals are a disgrace to society or make some other derogorative comment about them. On a trip to Wal-Mart, a guy leaves his cart out of the corral and it rolls into my car. We get into an argument, I lose my cool and deck him (OK, I'm not that hot-headed, but this is merely an example). The guy turns out to be gay, someone recalls the comment I made about gays, and all of a sudden I'm eligible to be prosecuted for a much harsher crime under hate crime legislation.

Here's the bigger question: Why do we need hate crime laws to begin with?

falcon · 06-20-2007, 08:11 AM

i like the catch-all phrase: "and for other purposes." In other words they plan to go after anyone who dares to criticize the gay/lesbian life style.

cr422 · 06-20-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BenGarrett

Look at what has happened in other countries after hate crime laws were put into effect. It's merely a foot in the door.

As for the bill in question, yes it absolutely does hinder freedom of speech (and freedom of thought). Let's say that I say that all homosexuals are a disgrace to society or make some other derogorative comment about them. On a trip to Wal-Mart, a guy leaves his cart out of the corral and it rolls into my car. We get into an argument, I lose my cool and deck him (OK, I'm not that hot-headed, but this is merely an example). The guy turns out to be gay, someone recalls the comment I made about gays, and all of a sudden I'm eligible to be prosecuted for a much harsher crime under hate crime legislation.

Here's the bigger question: Why do we need hate crime laws to begin with?

I agree that we don't need hate crime laws. The laws we have should be enough.

But the bill doesn't bar speech. In fact the section 8 that I posted explicitly states that it does not.

But you do have a point.You may have a thing about, say,homosexual, Norwegian, Mormons. So before you get in a fight, you should make sure your opponent is not a homosexual, Norwegian, Mormon.

Of course, it's a bad idea to get in a fight with someone you don't know anyway. He could be a homosexual, Norwegian, Mormon with a short fuse and a gun.