Yeah, this stuff is pretty harsh towards religion. I'm not religious, but I'm not anti-religious either. I believe it's up to each believeror followerto make religionwhat it is. Yes, they're technically correct in identifying religion as a cover or a source of justification for unprovoked war and other crimes. And yes, there are an awful lot of superstitious people out there, and sometimes that gets others into trouble. But I respect faith and allow each man to choose his own path, with or without religion. It's his life, and I hope he does what he has to do in order to live it to the fullest.
To systematically attempt to destroy religion is an assault not at some hierarchical establishment, but to attack all of the followers as well. There are some things that can't be answered outright, and so I find it cruel and malicious to try and strip people of the answers they've pieced together from whatever source. These guys are just as bigoted as the harshest, more obscene fringe ministers blaming 9/11 on homosexual tolerance and other outlandish claims.
I have experience with a very intelligent person who has read many of these books, and while his logic is often in order, he just doesn't want to realize that faith is just as much an emotion as a principle, and that some people just have it. He thinks many of the country's problems will be solved when religion is crushed, and we spar constantly over it. Seems a shame people go out of their way to hurt people over this.
Let's hear what everyone thinks about this literary phenomenom...
I think this comes from the trend in the US towards a religious based government rather than a secular one. Most people in the west are outraged when a middle eastern country puts a fundamentalist government in power and yet the US has done exactly that, just a different religion. In fact the US is the only developed country in the world which does not separate church from state. Unfortunately this has had a major effect on foreign policy, hence the current problems.
I have read all the books in question. The basic message is that if we put the welfare of all people ahead of religious differences we would all be alot better off. These books are equally critical of all religions, not just Christianity. I think if more people read them and looked at the evidence they would have a much different view of the world and be less inclined to judge others. Religion only becomes a problem when it is used as justification to incinerate the "other guys".
Read the God Delusion. Then decide.
Stop criticizing our country. When I want to be defended by mounties, prosecuted for hate crimes for speaking my mind, wait in line at a state run hospital, and shut off my mind and enshrine it in a politically correct cocoon, I will move to Oh Canada. At least your current administration is a slight improvement.
Your post is uneducated and condescending. I'm sure after reading all those anti-God books you think you are one of the *brights* and we are all just a bunch of dumb rubes mixing up our good ole politics and religion down here. One way to feel smug and smart is to take a ridiculous, caricatured view of others that does not come from experience, intelligence or reflection.
Stop criticizing our country.Â* When I want to be defended by mounties, prosecuted for hate crimes for speaking my mind, wait in line at a state run hospital, and shut off my mind and enshrine it in a politically correct cocoon, I will move to Oh Canada.
I always find it amusing when Canadians start criticizing the U.S.
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We must be the change we wish to see in the world -- Ghandi
http://www.rightminded.net
Borealboy: I didn't detect any particular disrespect in your post towards the USA. It seems you are being attacked with plain Jane "America, love it or leave it!" type of chauvanism. I guess that is not surprising. I'm not saying I agree 100% with your post, but it did not seem vacuous, uneducated, bombastic, arrogant, etc.
I say let people believe what they want to believe. If people's religious beliefs give them comfort in the face of suffering, death of loved ones, excellent. To the extent religious beliefs lead people to live more ethically, also more to the good. To the extent religious beliefs lead to beating up and hurting people, not so good. We can think about the radical islamic fundamentalists, we can also think of other religions which insist that everyone buys into their religious beliefs and punishing those who think differently. Bottom line, don't shove your beliefs down my throat and demand that I live in accordance with your religious beliefs: I may be a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Taoist, a Sunni Muslim, a Shiite Muslim, a Suffi, a Shintoist, a Catholic, a Souther Baptist, a Jew, or other faith, and we should not try to impose our faiths on others. I don't care for evangelists much, for the preceeding reasons. When charismatic religious leaders use their position for self-aggrandizement and personal gain, that seems contemptible.
It seems that the importance of religion in politics ebbs and flows. For awhile religion becomes important in politics and then religion becomes less important in politics. Then perhaps our government or laws gradually become hostile to religion, and religion fights back and recovers some lost ground. It seems we may be in this kind of political climate now, with religion fighting to regain some lost ground.
I'm not a jingoist. What I'm responding to is the tired line that America is a theocracy. People who think they are very smart spout this kind of stuff every chance they get. You can't even pray in "Jesus' name" at a graduation, and just today the ACLU won a case where people can swear their court oath on Koran or other religious texts and not just the Bible. Our country has some problems, and there is room for plenty of criticism (constructive kind preferred), but this theocracy bit (at least in politics) is mostly an imagined bogeyman. You want theocracy, go to Tehran. Are there people who would like to run America as a theocratic Christian nation? Yes. Are they really in control of this country, the universities, the media, the culture? No, not even close.
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,185
RE: Atheism On Best-Seller Lists
Quote:
ORIGINAL: BenGarrett
Quote:
ORIGINAL: LebeauHunter
borealboy,
Stop criticizing our country. When I want to be defended by mounties, prosecuted for hate crimes for speaking my mind, wait in line at a state run hospital, and shut off my mind and enshrine it in a politically correct cocoon, I will move to Oh Canada.
I always find it amusing when Canadians start criticizing the U.S.
I bet its nice to have the big dog chained to the tree right outside your lawn. Wonder what it would be like if we were not playing big dog.
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 24,185
RE: Atheism On Best-Seller Lists
Quote:
ORIGINAL: borealboy
I think this comes from the trend in the US towards a religious based government rather than a secular one. Most people in the west are outraged when a middle eastern country puts a fundamentalist government in power and yet the US has done exactly that, just a different religion. In fact the US is the only developed country in the world which does not separate church from state. Unfortunately this has had a major effect on foreign policy, hence the current problems.
I have read all the books in question. The basic message is that if we put the welfare of all people ahead of religious differences we would all be alot better off. These books are equally critical of all religions, not just Christianity. I think if more people read them and looked at the evidence they would have a much different view of the world and be less inclined to judge others. Religion only becomes a problem when it is used as justification to incinerate the "other guys".
Read the God Delusion. Then decide.
Im proof its all in the perspective. Ive read most of those books and found most tobe very uneducated towards religious views. Most took a very stereotypic view. Not very deep. I found them to be mostly diatribes. Ill agree with one point, that is that religion is a problem when its used to justify actions taken against others unduly. With that said, I don't consider those extreme views as religious views, more as zelics. It would be like equating Hitler to a Christian leader. He believed in Christianity laced with the occult.[/align]
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kaafir mushrik
Unintended consequences and God have one thing in common: Liberals don’t believe in either of them.
LebeauHunter: I don't like those allegations of Theocracy either. Sure, Bush and generally the Republicans may argueably get more votes from the devout Christians, this doesn't make a Republican presidency a Theocracy -- just ask those devout Christians. I sure haven't seen Bush jumping and hoping like a puppet controlled by the Christians. Any politician has a constituency that they appeal to and with which they ingratiate themselves with. The Democrats seem to court the poor, uneducated, gay-lesbian crowd -- does that mean the Democrats in government are going to dance like a puppet on a string for those constituencies? Mostly those accusations are just polemics -- no weight, just a plausible negative with which to score debating points.
Atheism On Best-Seller Lists
I always find it amusing when Canadians start criticizing the U.S.
