Of course there have been some knee jerk reaction calls for more gun control in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings. These facts are unknown to me, but (1) if the State of Virginia has a gun law that prohibits selling guns to mentally disturbed people, (2) if the shooter was examined by a mental health facility and found to be of unsound mind, and (3) if the unstable mental condition of the shooter was not entered into the appropriate screening database. . . in this circumstance the existing gun law(s) would be arguably effective and sufficient, the shortcoming would lie in the failure to enter the diagnosed unstable mental condition of the shooter into the appropriate screening database.
I know that sounds complicated and tortuous, but I suspect something like this might be in play here. An English teacher of the shooter was disturbed by his writings and advised him to get counseling, and shared this appraisel with administration personnel. The shooter was accused by two women of stalking them; a court ordered the shooter to obtain psychiatric examination. The shooter DID get examined by a mental health facility. It seems to me that this shooting took place because the guy was insane or mentally unstable; the various loose systems that exist for combing out these unstable individuals actually identified him . . . but they dropped the ball and did not disclose his mental instability to the existing background check system. If these facts are bourne out, it seems to me the fault is not with the gun laws that are in effect but rather with another portion of the system, the portion that identifies unstable misfits and registers this information in a search database.
So the solution is not more gun control laws but effective use of the gun control laws on the books. All the signs and indications where there -- and the prohibition of selling guns to mentally unstable individuals -- but the system failed to push the information along to the appropriate database, this is an information processing problem not a gun control problem.
ORIGINAL: Alsatian
... this is an information processing problem not a gun control problem.
What do you think?
I heard a guy on the news this morning saying that there is no way of predicting human behavior therefore they would never have been able to screen him out. I'm rather certain there was more than enough information there to determine this guy would be a threat to society with a firearm.
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I think you nailed it, Alsatian. The bureacracy dropped the ball here. More laws won't help them gets their heads out of their ******, I can guarantee that.
What I watched just hours after the shooting was as I recall a armchair retired law enforcement type who was handling,describing a 9mm the killer used.His closing statement was this gun is only used for one thing and that is a Killing Machine or Man Killer.
My understanding is the killer also had a 22 handgun in his possession.
Taking the 9mm and all similar handguns out of the picture,the 22 could have accomplished the same thing as the 9mm if not more IMO.
What the Hell - do we Ban all 22 semi's.
My point on this whole rant is anybody who is familiar with handguns could clearly show the same number of deaths could occur with a 22 semi auto pistol. Smaller hole,less bang,blood,but dead is dead.Crude but true.
A point some Pro Gun advocates should demonstrate to our lawmakers before they go off Half Cocked on a handgun rampage to appease voters in 08. Its Coming! They will use this in 08.
I find that statement particularly vacuous. Of course a 9 mm is a "killing machine!" What is the purpose of a firearm supposed to be? Firearms are designed to produce massive, fatal trauma from a stand-off distance. This is not a comment on you, AJ52, but the retired dude and probably the TV announcer interviewing him.
So the solution is not more gun control laws but effective use of the gun control laws on the books.Â* All the signs and indications where there -- and the prohibition of selling guns to mentally unstable individuals -- but the system failed to push the information along to the appropriate database, this is an information processing problem not a gun control problem.
Probably the most compelling point of your whole statement. I can't wait until the shock wears off and the finger pointing and lawsuits begin, this will come back to haunt them.
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There are laws in place to prevent people diagnosed with mental problems from purchasing firearms, red tap involving doctor patient confidientiality often inhibits this process. However in this case the court had the shooter involuntarily committed for psychiatric evaluation because the judge thought there was enough proof to consider him an immediate threat to himself or others. When that happened he should have been flagged to prevent him from purchasing a firearm legally. Where was the ball dropped? After the judge initiated the order a justice of the court checked a box that stated other options were reviewed and deemed suitable at this time, what options you ask, psychiatric evaluation and prescribed medication. That one check mark in that box kept his name from being flagged(even though legally it still should have been)and then they thought this guy was going to voluntarily take his meds and be a good little boy, whoops. In reality though all this would have prevented was his legal purchasing of firearms and it seems reasonable to me to think this guy would have found some other way to get a gun or carry out his plan. But you would think they would of removed him from the school and forced him into an institution for some serious evaluation. When will people realize you can't legislate "crazy". There is a song from the group Alabama called "Angels Among Us" and most people know it and think it is a pretty song (which it is) and believe in the lyrics to a pointbut unfortunately there is also Evil amongst us and the sooner we start believing that and accepting it for what it is the sooner people will realizethatyou can't rationalize, explain, or prevent something as irrational, unexplainable and unpreventable as this tragedy and others like it. I will try to find a link to the article I got the above info on the shooter from.
EDIT: Sorryfillae I just realized that article you linked has a lot of the
same info in it.
It is good to see it coming out, hopefully it will help everyone
to quit focusing on the guns and focusing on the other problems
(warning signs, parental reponsibility, how he wasn't flagged,
and why he was even still allowed in school) JMO.
My son has one of these weapons just to "Have It".Goes to local range to shoot or out in the field to pop targets etc..I hate the mentality of people who think just because you have a certain type,caliber or configuration of weapon it can only be used as Killing Machine.Many buy these weapons just to have one and play with it in a responsible manner.
AJ52: I see your point. The law enforcement guy says no one buys those things unless they are bent on mahem. In fact, it may just be for the pure joy of shooting at cans and knocking them over. It can be for the sheer joy of pulling the trigger, feeling the jolt of the gun, and the sharp retort of the shot going off. What's wrong with that? Is there something more barbaric, more atavistic, less civilized than the equally irrational urge to want to go fast, to feel the pure rush of powerful acceleration when you mash down on the accelerator of a sports car?
VT Shootings and Gun Control
