Iraq reopens debate on Vietnam

[CalHunter]

ORIGINAL: vc1111

James, I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea that we must do something.

The questions and dissent are not about that. Attacking a nation that represented next to no threat, and doing it without preparation for the obvious is obviously a blunder. Doing so with a shell of a coalition is the same. High ranking officials had to be shamed into even providing the appropriate armor after nearly two years of rocket and IED attacks on convoys and concentrations of our kids. Rumsfeld has left the building in the midst of this mess...
Perhaps Rummy leaving will provide the opportunity for a fresh examination of the problem and hopefully some better solutions. We're there, it's real and we need some sort of solution that is between staying forever and cutting and running.

Follow the logic of Iraq...we attack nations with dictators and WMDs. We do this with powerful allies, like Astonia (insert appropriate tone of sarcasm when reading that last line). We create "democracy". We essentially stand by covering our heads as civil war type conditions ensue. We alone go broke.
It's pretty much always been like this. The rest of the world are cheapskates and try to get us to pay for everything.

How much has been written on this board denying the prudence of our incursion in Afghanistan? How much has been written or said elsewhere? Next to nothing.
True.

It's about Iraq. Not the so-called and ill-defined "War On Terror." It's time to stop clinging to the flawed idea that if you're questioning the handling of our actions in Iraq, you're somehow unable to see the threats we should be addressing.
Iraq needs better solutions but it is not in and of itself solely our war on terror. Americans tend to demand quick solutions when those are not always possible (I'm referring to the war on terror and not necessarily Iraq).

If you haven't read the newspapers or watched the news in the last 2 days or so, you should. The leaders in Iraq are questioning our presence. A leaked memo from high American sources supposedly questions the very ability or willingness of the Iraqi people and the leaders we help put in power to handle themselves or the situation in that country.
The leakers in high government always seem to be more concerned about embarrassing our government and never give a rip about the consequences for our troops on the ground. Is there a problem? Of course. Does leaking a memo help? Nope, it just helps get more troops killed.

Its going precisely the way it would naturally go in the wake of such lousy leadership and planning. And we should "stay the course?" For what? For whom? As usual, the American solution is to throw more money at it and hope it heals itself.
That is the American solution to everything and we need to stop using that idiotic solution to just about everything. Spending a lot more money rarely fixes anything and usually just leaves you more broke.

Those people do NOT care about what we've done for them or how much we've spent or given them. Many people in this country do not see anything in this for us and some don't understand why we went in, basically alone and at our expense, in the first place. Yesterday, our president says that the Iraqis are "interested in peace," yet they and the "insurgents" are killing each other as fast as they can. With that in mind, and knowing that most of war is policitical in nature, what is in this for us?
There are other solutions that our government needs to begin implimenting. Our current strategy is obviously not going to finish the job and needs to be altered.

Its been said, that we'd create more terrorists, than we'd ever be able to kill because of our occupation of Iraq. I fear that may becoming reality right in front of our eyes.
I don't think we're creating them so much as there isn't much hope over there because of all the scumbag leaders who think it's right to kill indiscriminately.

Iraq has become a true quagmire. We are not damned if we do, and damned if we don't. We are fighting for a people that do not support us. We have placed our kids in a place where citizens and even the police we put in power can be doing one thing during the day and shooting at us or trying to blow us up when we turn our backs. Anyone who supports our cause and troops is subject to being tortured and killed by who knows who. We cannot tell which is friend and which is enemy. We are going broke in the process. We are told to ignore all that and keep pouring lives and money into that country. That we're "making progress."
We have made a lot of progress over there and most of the country is in good shape or getting there. We need to find additional ways to get the Iraqis to take charge of their own country. I personally think they should split the country into 3 autonomous regions wherein the predominant religious group in each section runs that part of the country. It won't stop all of the bloodshed but it will significantly reduce it and enable us to leave.

Smell that? Does it smell like Viet Nam yet?
Not really. That is an apples and oranges comparison.

Perhaps just like WWII it will take time for other nations to support us and join us after seeing the threat firsthand for themselves. I don't know and you don't either.
Other nations don't give a rip unless it's profitable for them. Most of our so called allies are little better than fair weather friends when we spend money in their countries.

We need to regroup and redefine our cause and missions. We need to reconsider how and where and when and with whom we will fight in the days, months, and years to come. Its time for leadership, the strength to fight ruthlessly, and most of all a time for diplomacy and communications with both our friends and enemies.
We do need to fight smarter, use our precious troop resources more wisely and send out a clear and consistent message. Our press, as usual, is fighting against our best interests.

In the midst of this mess, our leaders are ignoring other problems that can cause chaos and even collapse of our fabric and our economy. I spoke to a man yesterday who has been a farmer all his life. His health care plan just raised his monthly charges from $12000 per year to $18000 per year. His wife has multiple sclerosis and thus they have few choices as far as other plans for health care. Our energy costs have skyrocketed. Gasoline could hit $7 or $8 a gallon or even more in the months to come for all we know because we've seen that type of volatility and gouging. I could go on, but the point is that these problems only compound the problems we face in the months to come and in the wake of having bankrupt this nation...for what? For whom?

The health care issue is never going to be fully solved until our country breaks away from the stranglehold that lawyers have with frivolous lawsuits, we enable companies to provide catastrophic only coverage and we accept the fact that nobody can pay for us to see a doctor for free every single time we have the sniffles or want some get out of work for a few days doctor's note.