The Patriot PostFounders' Quote Daily"To grant that there is a supreme intelligence who rules theworld and has established laws to regulate the actions of hiscreatures; and still to assert that man, in a state of nature,may be considered as perfectly free from all restraints of lawand government, appears to a common understanding altogetherirreconcilable. Good and wise men, in all ages, have embraceda very dissimilar theory. They have supposed that the deity,from the relations we stand in to himself and to each other, hasconstituted an eternal and immutable law, which is indispensablyobligatory upon all mankind, prior to any human institutionwhatever. This is what is called the law of nature....Upon thislaw depend the natural rights of mankind."-- Alexander Hamilton ()
The Patriot PostFounders' Quote Daily"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage,and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him. This dutyis precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, tothe claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered asa member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject ofthe Governor of the Universe."-- James Madison (A Memorial and Remonstrance, 1785)
The Patriot PostFounders' Quote Daily"It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at statedseasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creatorand Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt,molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, forworshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates ofhis own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments;provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct othersin their religious worship."-- John Adams (Thoughts on Government, 1776)
It would appear that the founding fathers were not so preoccupied with the idea of separation of Church and State as the liberals would like us to believe.
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While you rest, someone, somewhere, is training. When you meet, you will lose.
What they weren't fond was a state sponsored religion, like the Church of England. Many of our country's first citizens were there because they fled persecution by the Christian churches of Europe.
That's my point. It seems the liberals have taken this notion to mean that the citizens should not ever see or hear of religions in conjunction with government. This has been extended not only to Federal buildings, but to city, county, and state court houses, schools, parks, you name it.
I'm getting tired of it. It means so much to me because (as some of you may have already read) my son was told he could not wear a cross to school. He usually wears it under his shirt and it just happened to come out. I argued with the school and they claimed the separation of Church and state. When I asked for the law supporting this, the principle stated, "the Constitution!" I then asked her to show me where it is in the Constitution, and she couldn't locate it. I was shocked that a priciple of a junior high actually knew so little about that issue and where it comes from. When I started talking about the freedom of speech and freedom from religious persecution lawsuit I was about to file, she caved. I won.
Anyway, I wish someone at the top would finally just put their foot down and lay it out straight for everyone.
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While you rest, someone, somewhere, is training. When you meet, you will lose.
Anyway, I wish someone at the top would finally just put their foot down and lay it out straight for everyone.
Amen to that! It sure seems to me that our governments, states and local included, are Hippocritical. Especially when in court your suppose to swear to the truth over a bible! "....tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God...." Then turn around and ban the commandments from the premises! Makes me wanna scream!!! AHHHHHHHH
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"If we don't end war, war will end us!"
H.G. Wells 1935
The founding Fathers were as diverse a group as you can find.
I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)
"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams
"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)
"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)
Also see Treaty of Tripoli
"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith." - Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations." - Patrick Henry
"That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience." - Patrick Henry (Virginia Bill of Rights, June 12, 1776.)
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Good research Charlie. I think this shows that at least some of the founding fathers believed in an individual's freedom to worship as they pleased and that the state would not impose some arbitrary or state mandated religion.
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Ok, call me ignorant, stupid or whatever the case, that above is some good research, took alot of time and effort to post that, but what does all that have to do with the banning of the 10 commandments and other relgious iconsat courthouses that I have seen in the news in the past?
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ORIGINAL: CalHunter
Good research Charlie. I think this shows that at least some of the founding fathers believed in an individual's freedom to worship as they pleased and that the state would not impose some arbitrary or state mandated religion.
and I'm all for the freedom to choose and worship any religion you want, including none if that's what your into, but reading your post above Cal, does this mean when we swear to an oath in the Courthouse at a trial, we can swear in not over a bible, but any other relgious book, like lets say the Coran (don't know if I spelled it correctly), or even a book of none religion if they are pushing the seperation between the two, How bout swearing in over the Betty Crocker Cook Book?
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"If we don't end war, war will end us!"
H.G. Wells 1935
You don't have to swear over a bible to testify just like the President doesn't have to while taking office.
[blockquote]"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." [/blockquote]
There's a reason they put affirm in there.
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Ok, call me ignorant, stupid or whatever the case, that above is some good research, took alot of time and effort to post that, but what does all that have to do with the banning of the 10 commandments and other relgious iconsat courthouses that I have seen in the news in the past
I'm sure there would have been founding fathers the were against them being in a court house and ones that were all for it.My point was you can't just use a couple qoutes to show all the foundin fathers were for or against something.
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Separation of Church and State
