So, am I the only one on this board who thinks we need to bring back the draft? I don't think we might need a draft or that we'll need one if things continue as they are - I think we need one right now.
Some troops are on their third combat tours now- that is crazy. These people volunteered, yes, but is it fair of everyone in America to expect them to shoulder the entire burden of this war? There is no way they should be expected to do three combat tours without a draft in place.
It's one thing when you have nearly everyone in the country in the military like you did in WWII - you send people for as long as you need to in that situation. But in this situation we are just telling these kids that because they were willing to sign up once, we get to keep them and keep deploying them for up to eight years (the minimum complete term of service you sign up for).
I say bring back the draft right now and screw deferments for anything except physical disability. College kids, poor kids, rich kids and senators' kids. That will get them to either commit to this war with the level of troops needed or get the hell out. Piss or get off the pot, I believe is the term.
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This will probably go a lot quicker if you just recognize that you are wrong and I am right.
Did your party learn ANYTHING from the Vietnam War?
Here's what you get,
A bunch of stupid hippies running on the street, people fleeing to Canada, why, because of the draft!
When WW3 occurs, by all means, I won't have to be drafted, I'll enlist,butthey should install the draft then. We have enough troops in Iraq now, all that the draft would do is have a million troops stuckon stand-by, and it'll be a waste of taxpayers money to have a force in Americato serve in Iraq that's bigger than the one we have IN Iraq!
But, you do have a point, if wecould get EVERYONE into the war, rich kids, poor kids,long-faced senators kids(couldn't resist), then this will be truly, an all-American war. Still, we have a sufficient amount of troopsto do the job, thenwe don't need anymore. Of course, when they start deploying more troops to the border, that could be an issue.
Still, re-instating the draft, not going to happen. Politicians from the War in Vietnam will have none of it. And, as I stated before, the country's morale would go down. Heck, if we drafted everybody, than it'll be like Vietnam. There were marines who were hippies![:@]
The representation of the upper socio-economic levels in the military has been increasing, especially after 9-11. It's no longer the 2.5 - 3.0 GPA kids who are joining the military out of high school; more of the 3.5 - 4.0 GPA kids are enlisting.
On one hand, I would like to see some worthless scumbags finally do something for our country. In my life's experience, however, I know such scumbags would only be a burden to the intelligent people who enlist and needlessly endanger them. For this reason, I think a draft would result in an overall lower caliber troops--something that would be a foolish move.
The separate issue of troops being on their 3rd combat tour raises some questions about deployment lengths for combat tours (Air Force is 4 months, Marines & Sailors 7 months and Army for 1 full year). If you're discussing an Airman doing three 4-month tours (1 year of time), I don't think that should be an issue worthy of complaint. I think three 7-month tours is an acceptable amount of time. I think three 1-year tours, however, is getting to be too long.
Another part of this issue is what percentage of each service's actual # of personnel are doing tours in Iraq? 138,000 total troops are stationed in Iraq. The Army has 494,000+ troops total and the Marines 178,000 total. I didn't locate figures for the Air Force and Navy but presume they would be similar. In short, the services are obviously not rotating everybody through Iraq. I know that there are likely some particular jobs within each service that are not needed in iraq but it is also obvious that more troops could be rotated through Iraq.
And last, but not least, it is also obvious that the U.S. needs to develop a better game plan that allows us to reduce our troop strength in Iraq to the point where it isn't such a burden on the troops. I realize a lot of people volunteer to do 2nd and 3rd tours in Iraq and that's fine. I think that a troop who does 1-2 years in Iraq has pretty much lived up to their obligation and we need to figure something else out. JMHO here but it is only logical to figure out a better way to finish this war without cutting and running.
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good question, SB.and it's not insulting to our troops, but rather seeks analysis of the sufficiency of current troop levels.
it's not about the training or competence of our troops, but rather their number. whether we want to admit it or not we are stretched to the limit. i feel we did not have enough troops on the ground to pacify and secure iraq at the getgo-there's a difference between shattering a country's military and then occupying it. similarly, we would be sorely tested if we had to respond now in another theatre (e.g. korea) if our interests or allies were threatened there. finally, the guys i've talked to who have been there feel worn out.
on the one hand, the benefits of a volunteer force are substantial in terms of training, motivation, and morale. on the other, there are the greater numbers conscription brings. i also feel that as a nation, we would be more judicious in the use of our troops if EVERYONE'S kids had the potential to be "over there", wherever "there" happened to be at the time.
I was a platoon leader back when there was still a south viet nam, and the soldier of today is really a smarter and higher quality individual. Back when, if a troop was on drugs, the world did not care as long as he made it to duty. Now, they have annual UA's to see who will get flushed. I think we are overstretched with current personnel levels. Another front would be difficult to handle if control of the ground had to happen, although our combined arms should neutralize the attack. As far as reinstating the draft goes, I think it would continue to harvest kids from disadvantaged circumstances. I don't believe we are beyond that yet. It was very disheartening to me, when I think about the poor and the ghetto kids that honorably served and were spat on when they returned, that a nation could treat them that way. But it happened. At the same time, I really doubt that the current war will be sustained by the nation over 2 more years. So unless the Iranians or Koreans come pouring over the border, I expect to be draft free IMHO. God bless the troops.
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"Tucson sweet. Best chili in the Saguaro."
Magnum Man, White horse and Younggun all sound like they should work for the white house - I ask a question about the numbers of troops and they try to twist it to make it sound like I'm saying something about the motivation, training level or patriotism of the current troops. Nice try, but you'll find Strange Biller doesn't back right down in the face of these kinds of attacks.
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No draft is needed. Our current all-volunteer military is the most motivated, intelligent, & effective fighting force this world has ever seen.
The Navy SEALs are probably the best trainined, most motivated fighting forces in the world. That doesn't mean there are enough of them to win the wars in Iraq and Ahghanistan.
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Did your party learn ANYTHING from the Vietnam War?
Here's what you get,
A bunch of stupid hippies running on the street, people fleeing to Canada, why, because of the draft!
When WW3 occurs, by all means, I won't have to be drafted, I'll enlist,butthey should install the draft then. We have enough troops in Iraq now, all that the draft would do is have a million troops stuckon stand-by, and it'll be a waste of taxpayers money to have a force in Americato serve in Iraq that's bigger than the one we have IN Iraq!
But, you do have a point, if wecould get EVERYONE into the war, rich kids, poor kids,long-faced senators kids(couldn't resist), then this will be truly, an all-American war. Still, we have a sufficient amount of troopsto do the job, thenwe don't need anymore. Of course, when they start deploying more troops to the border, that could be an issue.
Still, re-instating the draft, not going to happen. Politicians from the War in Vietnam will have none of it. And, as I stated before, the country's morale would go down. Heck, if we drafted everybody, than it'll be like Vietnam. There were marines who were hippies![:@]
I don't know - the Republicans sure as hell didn't learn anything from Vietnam (except how to get multiple draft deferments). Can you say quagmire?
What is your evidence that we have all the troops we need? the fact that we don't have enough on the ground right now tells me we need more. The fact that the kids already serving are doing two and three tours tells me we need more. What is your evidence for the contrary?
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This is the most ignorant rubbish I have heard in quite sometime, how dare you insult the force we have now, we have all we need, and I doubt that a draft will be necessary in our lifetimes. Good Day. If you are saying this because your son or whatever died, then I am truly sorry, but if you are just saying this to say it, then get a life.
I don't even know where to begin with this foolishness. What is your point? Do you have one? Are you basing your accusation of this being
"rubbish" on the fact that I am an intelligent left leaning person? Or do you have a specific set of facts to present?
Cal - you make a few excellent points, especially about the length of the tours and I suspect you are right that most of the three tour people did not do three on year tours, but I do know that there are many with two one year tours. And like you, I think that is simply enough for them - I think they did thei part.
I don't think we are at the point where we can look at reducing troop levels in Iraq yet. I think we need to increase the troop levels until we get a better control over the country - that's the only chance we have. Otherwise I'd rather jut leave now (which is actually my preferred choice because as I have said many times, I honestly believe Iraq will devolve into chaos whenever we leave be it now or ten years from now).
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This will probably go a lot quicker if you just recognize that you are wrong and I am right.
Bring back the draft
(couldn't resist), then this will be truly, an all-American war. Still, we have a sufficient amount of troopsto do the job, thenwe don't need anymore. Of course, when they start deploying more troops to the border, that could be an issue.
