ON the military plane back from America's most fa mous terrorist holding pen, the in-flight film was "V for Vendetta," a screed that tries to justify terrorism. It was a fitting end to a surreal, military-sponsored trip.
The Pentagon seemed to be hoping to disarm its critics by showing them how well it cares for captured terrorists. The trip was more alarming than disarming. I spent several hours with Rear Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr., who heads the joint task force that houses and interrogates the detainees. (The military isn't allowed to call them "prisoners.")
Harris, a distinguished Navy veteran who was born in ***an and educated at Annapolis and Harvard, is a serious man trying to do a politically impossible job. I spoke with him at length, and with a dozen other officers and guards, and visited three different detention blocks.
The high-minded critics who complain about torture are wrong. We are far too soft on these guys - and, as a result, aren't getting the valuable intelligence we need to save American lives.
The politically correct regulations are unbelievable. Detainees are entitled to a full eight hours sleep and can't be woken up for interrogations. They enjoy three meals and five prayers per day, without interruption. They are entitled to a minimum of two hours of outdoor recreation per day.
Interrogations are limited to four hours, usually running two - and (of course) are interrupted for prayers. One interrogator actually bakes cookies for detainees, while another serves them Subway or McDonald's sandwiches. Both are available on base. (Filet o' Fish is an al Qaeda favorite.)
Interrogations are not video or audio taped, perhaps to preserve detainee privacy.
Call it excessive compassion by a nation devoted to therapy, but it's dangerous. Adm. Harris admitted to me that a multi-cell al Qaeda network has developed in the camp. Military intelligence can't yet identify their leaders, but notes that they have cells for monitoring the movements and identities of guards and doctors, cells dedicated to training, others for making weapons and so on.
And they can make weapons from almost anything. Guards have been attacked with springs taken from inside faucets, broken fluorescent light bulbs and fan blades. Some are more elaborate. "These folks are MacGyvers," Harris said.
Other cells pass messages from leaders in one camp to followers in others. How? Detainees use the envelopes sent to them by their attorneys to pass messages. (Some 1,000 lawyers represent 440 prisoners, all on a pro bono basis, with more than 18,500 letters in and out of Gitmo in the past year.) Guards are not allowed to look inside these envelopes because of "attorney-client privilege" - even if they know the document inside is an Arabic-language note written by a prisoner to another prisoner and not a letter to or from a lawyer.
That's right: Accidentally or not, American lawyers are helping al Qaeda prisoners continue to plot.
There is little doubt what this note-passing and weapons-making is used for. The military recorded 3,232 incidents of detainee misconduct from July 2005 to August 2006 - an average of more than eight incidents per day. Some are nonviolent, but the tally includes coordinated attacks involving everything from throwing bodily fluids on guards (432 times) to 90 stabbings with homemade knives.
One detainee slashed a doctor who was trying to save his life; the doctors wear body armor to treat their patients.
The kinder we are to terrorists, the harsher we are to their potential victims.
Striking the balance between these two goods (humane treatment, foreknowledge of deadly attacks) is difficult, but the Bush administration seems to lean too far in the direction of the detainees. No expense spared for al Qaeda health care: Some 5,000 dental operations (including teeth cleanings) and 5,000 vaccinations on a total of 550 detainees have been performed since 2002 - all at taxpayer expense. Eyeglasses? 174 pairs handed out. Twenty two detainees have taxpayer-paid prosthetic limbs. And so on.
What if a detainee confesses a weakness (like fear of the dark) to a doctor that might be useful to interrogators, I asked the doctor in charge, would he share that information with them? "My job is not to make interrogations more efficient," he said firmly. He cited doctor-patient privacy. (He also asked that his name not be printed, citing the potential for al Qaeda retaliation.)
Food is strictly halal and averages 4,200 calories per day. (The guards eat the same chow as the detainees, unless they venture to one of the on-base fast-food joints.) Most prisoners have gained weight.
Much has been written about the elaborate and unprecedented appeal process. Detainees have their cases reviewed once a year and get rights roughly equivalent to criminals held in domestic prisons. I asked a military legal adviser: In what previous war were captured enemy combatants eligible for review before the war ended? None, he said.
America has never faced an enemy who has so ruthlessly broken all of the rules of war - yet never has an enemy been treated so well.
Of Gitmo's several camps, military records show that the one with the most lenient rules is the one with the most incidents and vice versa. There is a lesson in this: We should worry less about detainee safety and more about our own.
Some 20 current detainees have direct personal knowledge of the 9/11 attacks and nearly everyone of the current 440 say they would honored to attack America again. Let's take them at their word.
It seems that "torture" is all the rage today. Does this sound like these terrorist unlawful enemy combatants are being tortured? I may have too much common sense, however, it seems like the military men & women who have to take care of these debris are closer to being tortured than the terrorist animals they are guarding.
seems to me there's too much attention being paid to creature comfort and not enough on instilling the fear of God into these ...Deleted by CalHunter... They should be wailing in agony, not gaining weight. I know if I was in the position many of our service men and women are in, I would, at every possible opportunity take NO prisoners...it would kind'a solve the problems of our brothers in arms at Gitmo.
Another approach would be to lock down Gitmo with only military personnel allowed there; no politicians, no press, and only military personnel with security clearances allowed in the prison. Then we can start to see if a 600 calorie a day diet, coupled with a 18-hour work day in the Cuban heat has any effect on resident Al-Qaida cells in the prison. There would be no prayers, and no shade, as I'd move their sleeping quarters out into the yard where they could take advantage of that wonderful Caribbean climate.
Attacks on prison guards should result in ...Deleted by CalHunter...
seems to me there's too much attention being paid to creature comfort and not enough on instilling the fear of God into these ...Deleted by CalHunter... They should be wailing in agony, not gaining weight. I know if I was in the position many of our service men and women are in, I would, at every possible opportunity take NO prisoners...it would kind'a solve the problems of our brothers in arms at Gitmo.
Another approach would be to lock down Gitmo with only military personnel allowed there; no politicians, no press, and only military personnel with security clearances allowed in the prison. Then we can start to see if a 600 calorie a day diet, coupled with a 18-hour work day in the Cuban heat has any effect on resident Al-Qaida cells in the prison. There would be no prayers, and no shade, as I'd move their sleeping quarters out into the yard where they could take advantage of that wonderful Caribbean climate.
Attacks on prison guards should result in ...Deleted by CalHunter...
seems to me there's too much attention being paid to creature comfort and not enough on instilling the fear of God into these ...Deleted by CalHunter... They should be wailing in agony, not gaining weight. I know if I was in the position many of our service men and women are in, I would, at every possible opportunity take NO prisoners...it would kind'a solve the problems of our brothers in arms at Gitmo.
Another approach would be to lock down Gitmo with only military personnel allowed there; no politicians, no press, and only military personnel with security clearances allowed in the prison. Then we can start to see if a 600 calorie a day diet, coupled with a 18-hour work day in the Cuban heat has any effect on resident Al-Qaida cells in the prison. There would be no prayers, and no shade, as I'd move their sleeping quarters out into the yard where they could take advantage of that wonderful Caribbean climate.
Attacks on prison guards should result in ...Deleted by CalHunter...
wow....sounds EXACTLY like somethin I would say!! I would show no mercy
-Travis-
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"Jesus answered and said unto him; Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3
Ban Canned Hunting. If you don't speak up against it you are part of the problem.
Location: On an Island in the west coast of New England
Posts: 13,133
RE: A DEADLY KINDNESS
Quote:
The Pentagon seemed to be hoping to disarm its critics by showing them how well it cares for captured terrorists. The trip was more alarming than disarming. I spent several hours with Rear Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr., who heads the joint task force that houses and interrogates the detainees. (The military isn't allowed to call them "prisoners.")
One of the many casulties fromk the Abu Grieb fiasko. The military is doing damage control and is too worried about proper PR to get the job done right.
Can't call them prisoners...give me a break. What are they guests ina military resort and spa?
Quote:
The high-minded critics who complain about torture are wrong. We are far too soft on these guys - and, as a result, aren't getting the valuable intelligence we need to save American lives.
I buy into this one in a big way
Quote:
The politically correct regulations are unbelievable. Detainees are entitled to a full eight hours sleep and can't be woken up for interrogations. They enjoy three meals and five prayers per day, without interruption. They are entitled to a minimum of two hours of outdoor recreation per day.
I was right they are in a resort. With treatment like that they should be throwing down their arms and asking to be captured. Wait until OBL hears how well they are being treated from his damp cave.Can you imagine 8 hours of sleep and MickyD's on demand
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Too busy with fishing to spend much time here.
I am not for physical torture or anything of that sort. I do believe that we need to take the measures needed through psychological & mental means to get the information we need. We treat the prisoners of the enemy we're fighting quite well, while the enemy we fight really takes no prisoners nor affords the few they capture alive to Geneva Convention protections. That disparity is glaring. We should not stoop to their level; however, we should also not be afraid (nor make those in whom we've charged with our national security afraid) to take the measures needed to get the vital information that will halt further terror attacks & disrupt these islamic fascist organizations.
I believe I agree with each and every response to my post. Unfortunately for me, I believe that I, personally, am at the point where NAZI-style tactics look good to me AS A STARTING POINT from which we can expand. This is not an easy stance to take, nor is it tasteful. On the other side of the coin, how can people within the USA (heretofore referred to as EW or The Enemy Within) stand up and shout for these scums to be treated as guests ? WE signed and adhere to the standards outlined in the Geneva Conventions. The desert monkeys did not...they actively violate these standards by CUTTING THE HEADS OFF OF CAPTIVES WITH A FRIGGIN' POCKET KNIFE AND SENDING THE TAPE TO AL-JAZEERA WHICH WE GET TO SEE ON THE CBS NIGHTLY NEWS !!! More to the point, we have milquetoast enemies in this country (the EW) who spend their time figuring out how to treat terrorist scum like common civilian criminals which is pretty darn stupid. These are non-uniformed combatants, many of whom were 'taken' in a battle zone actively attempting to end the lives of US Service men and women. So how do we punish such action ? We give 'em food, clothes, a/c, we allow them to eat, pray and actually abuse their waiters ...er...captors. I believe the so-called scandals at abu-ghraib and Guantanamo are BS...in abu-ghraib, putting your BVD's on your head and prancing around does not constitute torture. Having a woman fondle you, at least in MY neck of the woods, is not torture. Maybe in parts of some of these big cities that's torture, 'specially if you can't tell the boys from the girls ! Now if you start working on one of these pieces of S**T with a Dremel tool for 16 hours might be more in the spirit of the definition of torture. We need information from these guys, and we need it in a timely fashion. ...Deleted by CalHunter... Remember the screams from the people jumping off the burning World Trade Center ? Do their screams resonate any less ? Ever see someone 'splash' after hurtling 100 storeys and then kissing on the pavement ? How about watching a screaming middle-aged woman who can be your mom being crushed to 1-inch high by a 40-ton chunk of falling cement ? I have not forgotten this, and as a result of this trauma, I have a burning desire to see each and every subscriber to the teachings of the prophet mohammed ...Deleted by CalHunter... Clear enough ? I can't see how any other American can wish for less. The EnemyWithin is ignorant and living in la-la-land. They have yet to come to the realization that this enemy is dedicated to our death and destruction; he's willing to die, he's willing to let his family die, and he looks forward to be glorified in his own death as he cleanses the world of infidels in the name of God. There should be no quarter for these animals...no prisoners...no food...no prayer...only death and pain, for that is what they value. I say we should accomodate their wish for martyrdom by making ALL of 'em victims of their religion.
Contrary to my rant above, I DO value human life, just not Muslim life as I no longer consider them human after what I saw at 1 WTC on 09 September, 2001. ...Deleted by CalHunter...
Very true. And for that privilege, I thank MY God every day for the brave men and women who are out there killing my enemies and raining death and destruction down on their heads.
Thank you, my brothers and countrymen, for the sacrifices you make, for the freedom and security you guarantee to all of us, each and every day. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Once again, Travis, we're in agreement. There needs to be no mercy shown because it's not seen as 'humanity' but rather as weakness and evidence of moral decay. ...Deleted by CalHunter...
A DEADLY KINDNESS
I would show no mercy
