Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
Ihave read several reports that Israel is using these weapons are they not banned?
WASHINGTON, Aug 11 (Reuters) - Israel has asked the Bush administration to speed delivery of short-range anti-personnel rockets armed with cluster munitions, which it could use to strike Hizbollah missile sites in Lebanon, The New York Times reported on Friday.
The U.S. Defense Department, without confirming or denying the report, said "We fully support Israel's right to defend itself."
Israel was authorized to buy the multiple launch rocket system, or MLRS, in 1995, said Commander Greg Hicks, a Pentagon spokesman.
At least 10 other countries including Egypt and Bahrain also have bought the system, manufactured by Lockheed Martin Corp. <LMT.N>, and the M-26 family of tactical rockets, which include submunition-dispensing warheads, he said.
System owners may seek additional munitions from the United States, which would not have to report sales to Congress if they fell short of certain dollar-value thresholds .
"These are not indiscriminate arms transfers," Hicks said. They are done "in the interest of peace and broader international security" and "help peaceful nations meet their legitimate needs of self-defense," he said.
The Israeli request for M-26 artillery rockets, which are fired in barrages and carry hundreds of grenade-like bomblets that scatter and explode over a broad area, is likely to be approved shortly, along with other arms, the New York Times said, citing two U.S. officials it did not name.
But some State Department officials want to delay the approval because the rockets could cause civilian casualties if used against targets in populated areas, the report said.
David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington, said "as a rule, we do not comment on defense acquisitions."
"It's important to stress that Hizbollah operates from dense populated areas in attacking Israeli civilian targets and that Israel, in defending itself, uses only precision-guided munitions," he added.
Israel hit back at Hizbollah only after repeatedly warning the civilian population to vacate the area, Siegel said.
The United States had already approved the sale of the M-26 rockets, but the weapons had not been delivered when the Lebanon crisis erupted, the Times said.
Israel needed the rockets now, it quoted officials as saying, because it has been unable to suppress Hizbollah's Katyusha rocket attacks by using bombs dropped from aircraft and other types of artillery.
On July 14, the Bush administration supported an Israeli request for JP-8 jet fuel worth up to $210 million to help Israeli aircraft "keep peace and security in the region."
In April 2005, the administration backed an Israeli request for 100 GBU-28 "bunker buster" laser-guided bombs capable of destroying command centers buried deep underground.
__________________
You're only one post away from a federal watch list.
RE: Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
By Kathy Gannon
The Associated Press TYRE, LEBANON (Jul 25, 2006)
The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations, and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas. The Israeli military said its use of weapons "conforms with international law" and it investigates claims of violations "based on the information provided."
It also said that it had warned all residents to leave areas that had been targeted.
"The IDF (army) operates solely against terrorist organizations and terror infrastructure. The responsibility for endangering (the) civilian population rests on the Hezbollah terror organization," the military said in a statement.
They told them to leave but how are they supposed to?
A couple of other articles I read, they were from Middle eastern counries so I don't know how accurate they are say that it is illegal to use cluster bombs and vacum bombs against civilians.
This is the reason stated in the article I posted that the USA stopped giving thses bombs to Israel before. They used them on civilian populations.
__________________
You're only one post away from a federal watch list.
RE: Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
Just found this.
PROTOCOL ON PROHIBITIONS OR RESTRICTIONS ON THE USE OF
INCENDIARY WEAPONS (PROTOCOL III)
Article 1
Definitions
For the purpose of this Protocol:
1. "Incendiary weapon" means any weapon or munition which is primarily
designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons
through the action of flame, heat, or a combination thereof, produced by
a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target.
(a) Incendiary weapons can take the form of, for example, flame
throwers, fougasses, shells, rockets, grenades, mines, bombs and other
containers of incendiary substances.
(b) Incendiary weapons do not include:
(i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such
as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems;
(ii) Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or
fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect,
such as armour-piercing projectiles, fragmentation shells,
explosive bombs and similar combined-effects munitions in
which the incendiary effect is not specifically designed to
cause burn injury to persons, but to be used against military
objectives, such as armoured vehicles, aircraft and
installations or facilities.
2. "Concentration of civilians" means any concentration of civilians, be
it permanent or temporary, such as in inhabited parts of cities, or
inhabited towns or villages, or as in camps or columns of refugees or
evacuees, or groups of nomads.
3. "Military objective" means, so far as objects are concerned, any
object which by its nature, location, purpose or use makes an effective
contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction
capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time,
offers a definite military advantage.
4. "Civilian objects" are all objects which are not military objectives
as defined in paragraph 3.
5. "Feasible precautions" are those precautions which are practicable or
practically possible taking into account all circumstances ruling at the
time, including humanitarian and military considerations.
Article 2
Protection of civilians and civilian objects
1.It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population
as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by
incendiary weapons.
2. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective
located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by
air-delivered incendiary weapons.
3. It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within
a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary
weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such
military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of
civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting
the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in
any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to
civilians and damage to civilian objects.
4. It is prohibited to make forests or other kinds of plant cover the
object of attack by incendiary weapons except when such natural elements
are used to cover, conceal or camouflage combatants or other military
objectives, or are themselves military objectives.
__________________
You're only one post away from a federal watch list.
RE: Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
By Kathy Gannon
The Associated Press TYRE, LEBANON (Jul 25, 2006)
The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations,(being used against "military/millitia" targets)and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas.
But I don't believe the Convention has anything against them in general, just used in those specific situations.
So directly against military/militia/organized armed forces, used air in air attacks when not in civilian areas, used in those area by other than air attack (artillery, small arms, etc) are all Okey Dokey.
Quote:
A couple of other articles I read, they were from Middle eastern counries so I don't know how accurate they are say that it is illegal to use cluster bombs and vacum bombs against civilians.
articles..... from Middle Eastern countries. Nuf' said.
It all depnds who is writing the story. But no, Cluster munitions are not banned either. There are supposed to be limits on where they can be used/i.e. not directly on civilian populations, etc, but not banned.
And "vacum" bombs do not exist, per se. There are munitions which explode into a kind of fireball and theprimarydamage to animal life comes from the rapid consumption of oxygen in thearea by the blast, sucking up"all" of the (breathable) air in the area, then as the fireball/superheated air cools it causes a rapid rush of air back into the area causeing something that lookslike a vacum. Again, not legal for use against civilian populations, but not banned from existance.
And the U.S. does follow all of those rules itself and has quite strict codes for "Collateral Damage", which may be why "we" stopped selling some munitions to Israel for a while.
(one of my main "problems" with Israel. They spin "we follow Int Law (in the use of weapons, in use in civi areas)" way more than even the Spindoctors in D.C. do.)
Hope that helps explain some of it.
__________________
Aim small, miss small.
Risk more than others think is safe.
Care more than others think is wise.
Dream more than others think is practical.
Expect more than others think is possible.
-Cadet Maxim, US Military Acadamy at West Point
RE: Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
Quote:
The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorous as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations, and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas. The Israeli military said its use of weapons "conforms with international law" and it investigates claims of violations "based on the information provided."
The IDF used weapons containing incendiaries, but look at Article 1, Section 1, Subsection (ii) of your subsequent post:
Quote:
Munitions designed to combine penetration, blast or
fragmentation effects with an additional incendiary effect,
such as armour-piercing projectiles, fragmentation shells,
explosive bombs and similar combined-effects munitions in
which the incendiary effect is not specifically designed to
cause burn injury to persons, but to be used against military
objectives, such as armoured vehicles, aircraft and
installations or facilities.
Does that answer your question?
Quote:
It also said that it had warned all residents to leave areas that had been targeted.
"The IDF (army) operates solely against terrorist organizations and terror infrastructure. The responsibility for endangering (the) civilian population rests on the Hezbollah terror organization," the military said in a statement.
Israel was leveling Hezbollah offices and bunkersin order to destroy arms caches, communications systems, and other materiel used in military (i.e. terrorist) campaigns against Israeli citizens.
The IDF warned civilians to evacuate in advance, and while that can prove difficult for many people to do, some people simply refused to leave. You can't expect a country to put an offensive against cut-and-run terrorists when civilians allow them into their neighborhoods. Time is of the essence when striking mobile rocket launchers used to indiscriminately kill other civilians.
Quote:
They told them to leave but how are they supposed to?
Truck, van, car, mule, camel, bicycle, foot--recommended in that order.
Quote:
A couple of other articles I read, they were from Middle eastern counries so I don't know how accurate they are say that it is illegal to use cluster bombs and vacum bombs against civilians.
You should know by now that many Middle Eastern news agencies are nothing more than official or unofficial propaganda machines. Baghdad Bob ring a bell?
Quote:
This is the reason stated in the article I posted that the USA stopped giving thses bombs to Israel before. They used them on civilian populations.
Stopped "giving"? More like stopped selling. The reasons were most likely commercial or political. Israel was and is an ally, and a very strong one in the war on terrorism.
Suggesting that we stopped "giving" weapons to Israel because Israel violates international law is fallacious logic at best. There must be more evidence than that to make a convincing argument.
Are cluster bombs,vacum bombs and white phosphurus weapons banned?
