Looks like Israel might have given the technolgy to China that was the sold to Iran and ended up hitting their own ship.
Reuters reports "A military source said a C802 radar-guided missile with a range of 60 miles (100 km) had been fired at the ship as it sat off the coast." The C802 is also known as the "Noor," according to NTI. The C802 is the Iranian version of the the Chinese Jing YJ-82, and "Following the 1991 Gulf War Iran imported the C-802 antiship cruise missile from China." Wikipedia claims Iran purchased up to 60 C802 missiles. The C802 antiship missile can be launched from aircraft. In April of 2006, Iran claimed the the C802 (or Noor) can be fired from aircraft:
Arms to China
Israel. s independent policy on its own arms exports has been a source of tension with the United States for the past decade. Israel has a long-standing history of defense cooperation with China, and is currently, and controversially, the PRC. s second largest arms supplier.
An initial public accusation against Israel came in 1992, with a State Department Inspector General. s report on the potential re-transfer of U.S. military equipment and technology without U.S. permission. In 1992, the State Department Inspector General found that
[blockquote]reports of significant alleged violations of the AECA and ITAR [International Traffic in Arms Regulations] retransfer restriction by a major recipient of U.S. weapons and technology [Israel] had not been properly acted upon by PM [State Department Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs], which is responsible for initiating the reports of violation and ensuring compliance with U.S. laws and regulations governing arms exports. The violations include sales of sensitive U.S. items and technology to countries prohibited by U.S. law from receiving such items. The violations cited and supported by reliable intelligence information show a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorized transfers by the recipient dating back to about 1983. Despite receiving recurring evidence of violations over the past few years, and only after OIG [Office of the Inspector General] involvement, PM has recently taken action to curtail the unauthorized transfers (p.17).[/blockquote]
A focus of concern surrounded allegations that Israel incorporated U.S. technology into its own weapons and then exported those weapons without the approval of the U.S. government. Senator Byrd said in a 1 April 1992 floor speech that "the kinds of products we are talking about are such things as the Israeli versions of the United States-made AIM-9L Sidewinder air-to-air missile [Python 3] and TOW-2 anti-tank missile [MAPATS] (Congressional Record, 1 April 1992, p. S4602)." U.S. intelligence says that Israel's Python 3 air-to-air missile has a "high degree"of U.S. technology (Wall Street Journal, 9 April 1992). Israel said the U.S. government approved the export of MAPATS in 1986. In one case a license was denied and the U.S. components were replaced (Jane's Defence Weekly, 28 March 1992, p. 504). In the case of the Python 3, Israel claims that the version in Israeli service use U.S. components while those that are exported do not. The manufacturer, Rafael, declined State Department requests to identify "non-U.S. sources of supply" claiming it involves proprietary business information. As a result, all pending Python 3 retransfer applications were "returned without action" from the State Department. (Wall Street Journal , 9 April 1992)
At the same time the inspector general's report came out, the State Department said a separate investigation found "no evidence that Israel had transferred a Patriot missile or Patriot missile technology" to China, as had been rumored. (New York Times , 3 April 1992, p. A1)
Matters recently came to a head during a stand-off over a sale of radar to China. Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) agreed in 1999 to sell China a Phalcon airborne early warning and intelligence system for $250 million. The sophisticated radar would enable Chinese aircraft to view up to sixty aerial targets in all directions over a radius of up to 250 miles. Israel had signed a contract and accepted a deposit from China. Though Israel insists that the Phalcon does not contain U.S. technology, . U.S. officials say the system is closely related to the [American] AWACS, or airborne warning and control system. ('Israel-China Radar Deal Opposed', Washington Post , April 7, 2000).
The Phalcon radar had significant potential to assist China vis-*-vis its bitter cross-strait rival, Taiwan. Richard Aboulafia, an aircraft analyst with the Washington, DC Teal Group explained that . . A couple of AWACS can make a greater difference in the scheme of things [between China and Taiwan]. than anything else.[& ] The purchase of these planes could tip the scales in Beijing' s favor in the cross-strait balance . if they deploy [the Phalcon] correctly and use it correctly. . (quoted in Defense Week , 4-10-2000). The United States, of course, is committed to providing the defense of Taiwan. In spring 2000, the U.S. had denied Taiwan. s request for a AWACS.
The sale had been in the works since 1996 and proceeded smoothly until fall 1999, when reports surfaced that the Pentagon objected to the sale of such sophisticated technology to China. Israeli officials at first refused consider the American request to cancel the sale. It took more than half a year of intense pressure, including . unofficial sanctions. and threats to further withhold certain types of U.S. technology, before Israel was forced to abandon the sale (Jerusalem Post, Feb. 24, 2000, . US Plans to Punish Israel for China Sales,. by Janine Zacharia). The administration refused to go as far as some members of Congress, who suggested that Israel. s military aid should be cut if the Phalcon was delivered.
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I'll stop short of calling this complete malarky and saying that you're making quantam leaps between speculation and conclusion out of your hatred for Israel, because it is quite possible that I overlooked something in that piece (by the way, I wouldn't care to see the source for that cut-&-paste, if you don't mind).
However, after reading it, I see no inference in that piece anywhere to Israel giving China the technology to develop the C-802 missile, or its predecessor, the C-801. You remember the deductive reasoning section of the IQ test that you took in sixth grade or thereabouts? The question that said something to the effect of: Some red-haired boys are Irish. Johnny has red-hair. Does this mean: a.) Johnny is Irish; b.) Johnny isn't Irish; c.) Not enough information provided to reach a conclusion. Based on your method of reasoning here, you'd have answered a. Basically what you're saying is that Israel provides arms technology to China. China supplied Iran with the C-802. Therefore, Israel must've supplied China with the technology to manufacture the C-802. If you can show me something to suggest that this is the case, I'll apologize for my mistake. Otherwise, I have to assume that you're attempting to manufacture propoganda against Israel by making blind assumptions, which is reckless at best.
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C802 missile http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/1788_1816.html
11 January 2000
According to a South Korean government source, North Korea helps Iran improve the accuracy of the target identification system of its C801 and C802 naval cruise missiles.
The Iranian Navy hopes to improve its coastal defense and anti-ship capability with the joint program. Iran received about half of the 150, 80-mile-range C802s ordered from China before the supply was frozen in 1997. In the early 1990s, Iran purchased the 30-mile-range C801 missile from China. The C802 closely resembles France's Exocet missile, but the French manufacturer, Aerospatiale, denies any technology exchange took place.
C802 missile http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/1788_1816.html
11 January 2000
According to a South Korean government source, North Korea helps Iran improve the accuracy of the target identification system of its C801 and C802 naval cruise missiles.
The Iranian Navy hopes to improve its coastal defense and anti-ship capability with the joint program. Iran received about half of the 150, 80-mile-range C802s ordered from China before the supply was frozen in 1997. In the early 1990s, Iran purchased the 30-mile-range C801 missile from China. The C802 closely resembles France's Exocet missile, but the French manufacturer, Aerospatiale, denies any technology exchange took place.
OK, so now we have China, Iran and North Korea implicated in helping Hizbollah obtain these missiles. But still nothing tying them to Israel. If that was an attempt to "prove" Israel's ties to the C-802, aquafin, you failed miserably.
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Ben, I'm saying they very well could have supplied the technolgy that hit there own ship,why not they have supplied China with plenty our technoligy in the past.
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The second one is quite interesting for sure.......
The first is related to unspecified arms technology allegedly sold by Israel to China, with no mention of the C-802 or any munitions remotely related to the C-802.
The second deals specifically with an unverified report " highly doubted by experts " that Israel provided China with the Patriot missile technology, an allegation that I think we all know is probably false. That piece also mentions the various arms technologies that Israel is suspected of selling to China - air-to-air missiles, tank armor, combat aircraft and missile guidance systems. Note that it doesn't mention the C-802 or any other anti-ship missile.
So do you have any proof that Israel provided technology to China to help develop the C-802 or are you simply wasting the time of all who read this thread?
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U.S. Investigating Reported Israeli Sales of Patriot Missiles to ChinaBy John Lancaster
and Barton Gellman
The Washington Post
WASHINGTON
The Bush administration is "looking into" an intelligence report that Israel may have secretly supplied China with Patriot missile technology acquired from the United States, a senior administration official said Thursday.
The official described the report as "a subject of concern" but declined to provide any details. The United States gave the Patriots to Israel during the Persian Gulf War to defend against attacks by Iraqi Scuds, expressly forbidding transfers of the Patriots or their specifications to third countries.
The possibility that Israel may have violated that agreement, first reported in Thursday's Washington Times, is a matter of extreme diplomatic and political sensitivity. Israeli Ambassador Zalman Shoval was recently summoned to the State Department to discuss the intelligence report. Israel later denied the allegation through diplomatic channels and American Jewish groups Thursday questioned whether someone had leaked the story to embarrass Israel at a time U.S.-Israeli relations are under strain.
Although some scientists have begun to question the Patriot's reliability, the Raytheon Corp. product remains the only battle-tested, anti-missile defense weapon in existence, and Pentagon officials would like to keep it that way. Another concern is that if China or other countries acquired Patriot technology, they might figure out how to defeat it.
Israel acquired two batteries of Patriots worth $117 million in September 1990, a month after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Each battery consisted of five launchers and 64 missiles. Israel later arranged purchase of a third Patriot battery, whose missiles are slated for delivery in March 1994.
A recent Rand Corp. study identified Israel as "China's leading foreign supplier of advanced technology," citing reports that Israel has helped the Chinese develop air-to-air missiles, tank armor, missile-guidance systems, and a new combat aircraft. But several analysts Thursday expressed skepticism that Israel would go so far as to break its agreement with the United States on the Patriots, especially when the technology might someday wind up in the hands of an adversary.
"The notion that [Israel] would transfer it to the Chinese, when they would presumably make much of the data available [to other countries], seems to me on its face implausible," said Jonathan Pollack, who directs the international policy department at Rand.
Spokesmen for the White House, State Department, and Pentagon refused comment on the matter. But there were several indications that the administration is looking carefully into the intelligence report, which according to one source was brought to the attention of President Bush.
In one sign of the administration's skittishness on the subject, national-security adviser Brent Scowcroft Thursday morning called Pete Williams, the Defense Department's chief spokesman, and instructed him not to talk about the issue, according to a source. "Pete got told by Scowcroft that they were handling this as an intelligence matter and you can't show concern or anything else," the source said.
Sources indicated that the administration has not reached any conclusion as to the truth of the intelligence report. "I don't know whether it happened," the official said. "I don't know whether we know whether it happened. I know we are concerned."
Another U.S. official said the Israelis "have a bad track record" on arms transfers, noting they have sold weapons containing U.S.-supplied parts to Taiwan, Chile, South Africa, and China. He said a previous sale to China involved "small" missiles but declined to provide details or give the date
Another
China's Missile Imports and Assistance From Israel
China's missile-related imports and assistance from Israel have been a subject of particular concern in the United States because of worries that Israel may be providing China with "back door" access to controlled, sensitive US technology. For example, in the early 1990s, reports surfaced that Israel had secretly transferred information on the US Patriot missile system to China, in violation of Israel's promise to the United States not to transfer the Patriot technology to any third country. Although both China and Israel denied the allegations, US government sources concluded that it was almost certain that a transfer of technology (though not physical equipment) had taken place.
China is reportedly using the Patriot technology to improve its surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems and to develop countermeasures against the Patriot for its ballistic and cruise missiles; reports also indicated that China intended to sell these SAMs and enhanced missiles to other countries, possibly including Iran. Reports suggested various Israeli motives for the transfer: some suggested that Israel had traded Patriot information for information on China's missiles; others asserted that Israel's transfer of Patriot technology was intended to encourage China to curtail its sales of ballistic missiles to countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iran.
In addition to the alleged Patriot technology transfer, Israel has allegedly supplied China with cruise missile technology, including sensitive US technology. Specifically, Israel is allegedly assisting China with the development of its YF-12A, YJ-62, and YJ-92 cruise missiles.
In September 1992, responding to US accusations that Israel sold China Patriot missile secrets, Chinese Foreign Minister Qian Qichen denied "that there had been any kind of military cooperation between Israel and China prior to the establishment of diplomatic relations."
Under U.S. pressure, Israel backed out of a deal with China, potentially valued at $1 billion, in July of 2000. Under the deal, Israel would have outfitted three Chinese Il-76 planes with Phalcon radars. The United States believed the deal would tip the strategic balance against Taiwan. Chinese authorities responded harshly and demanded return of their deposit and compensation. In the Spring of 2002, Israel agreed to pay a reported $300 million to put an end to the dispute over the cancellation.
Since the cancellation of the Phalcon radar deal, Israel has assisted China in other areas including the development of the HQ-9/FT-2000, a surface-to-air missile, which would possibly use U.S. seeker technology. It has also assisted China in the area of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV). In July 2002, China deployed Israeli "Harpy" anti-radar drones in military exercises in Fujian Province.
On 2 January 2003, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher stated that Israeli military exports to China were of concern to the United States. The following day, Israel announced that it would comply with U.S. demands and halt all contracts on the export of arms and security equipment to China. A spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Ministry announced on 8 January that, "Defense relations between Israel and China require from time to time consideration of specific issues. The revision [sic] concluded vis-a-vis China and on concrete issues also vis-a-vis the U.S., bearing in mind American sensitivity." An Israeli official, electing to remain anonymous, suggested that Israel would continue to sell to China military equipment available on the global arms market. According to the Associate Press, China issued a written statement in response to the Israeli announcement. In the statement, it states that, "It is China's consistent position that the development of normal military trade cooperation with Israel is a matter between the two countries." For additional information on open-source reports of Chinese imports and assistance from abroad, please consult the CNS Missile Abstracts database.
Maybe they didn't get the exact missle from China but who sold China our advanced tracking systems etc.
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Follow the bouncing missle
