Far out man ...

[kevin1]

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20060429/4452e4c0_3421_1334520060429-161151423

Mexico is poised to decriminalize the possesion of many common street drugs so that resources may be redirected to battling the major traffickers . Under the proposed legislation these drugs will remain illegal to sell ,and penalties for trafficking would be stiffened . This begs a question .

What if the criminal element were to be removed ?

Instead of inadvertantly creating the conditions for illicit trade , suppose that they go ahead and decriminalize use under a system that regulates manufacture and distribution , taxes the product9s0 like any other, and provides a support structure to help manage the inevitable cases of addiction . Much like alcohol or tobacco , such a system acknowledges the futility of trying to regulate an illicit market and instead deals with the problem in a manageable way that actually generates revenue for both itself and other societally beneficial programs .

Would such a system work here ? Nearly everyone agrees that the legal staus of recreational drug use has not reduced the problem in this country , and while condoning it would be a somewhat bitter pill to swallowdrug use isgoing to occur anyway, so is decriminalization a viable answer here ? Please keep responses logical and without emotional bias , and be prepared to provide both pro and con to your argument in the interest of fair debate.

[Aught Six]

I support the legalization of all recreational drugs. I don't see any reason to criminalize behavior so long as it doesn't hurt any party but the user. Besides reinforcing the concept of personal liberty, it would most likely empty out a significant segment of the prison population and save our public services a lot of money.

Now, regarding Mexico...call me a nut, but I think thisbill is a deliberate attempt to overwhelm our domesticlaw enforcement resources. Drug traffic is going to increase along the border as Americans head south for a legal high (things are already bad withkingpins and dealers shooting each other over turf in the city streets), and the Border Patrol and other agencies are going to be forced to deal with this. That takes manpower, time, and money.

Fox and the Mexican government are pissed about the anti-illegal backlash in the American public and the bill the House passed last month. This is one way they can fight back in the political war.

[vc1111]

I support the legalization of all recreational drugs. I don't see any reason to criminalize behavior so long as it doesn't hurt any party but the user.

You may have someting valid to say here, but I'm not sure what you've said could possibly make sense.

Define "recreational drug." Is crack "recreational?" Heroin? Coke? Ecstasy? LSD? Crank?

If so, one can easily envision streets which are hard to negotiate for all the beggars and miscreants. Legalizing harmful substances would do nothing more than alter the pricing matrix; the fallout wouldn't magically disappear.

[kevin1]

VC is right in that use will continue , it will regardless of any laws as it has since prehistory, but in a decriminalized scenario part of the tax revenue from the sales would be used for a support program for those who overindulge and want out . Right now money for such programs must be taken from other programs , the problem should alsofund it's own solution . What about by products ? The value of industrial hemp is well known , and decriminalized use of it's less acceptable cousin would pave the way for new industries and resources . I too find little social value within heroin and cocaine , but the market is there and will be fed , better to have them regulated , taxed , and controlled than anarchy . An added bonus would be that the users would be able to fund their habits through ordinary employment so the drug focused sector of the crime rate would automatically be reduced since the junkies would have no reason to commit crimes for their habit . Whyrisk prisonfor a gram ofsmack when you could just flip a burger and then stop by the liquor/weed/coke/heroin store on the way home ?

Remember , this discussion requires both pro and con .

[vc1111]

An added bonus would be that the users would be able to fund their habits through ordinary employment so the drug focused sector of the crime rate would automatically be reduced since the junkies would have no reason to commit crimes for their habit .

You really think the average junkie could feed his habit flippin' burgers?

Also I question your premise that the crime would be "automatically" reduced. In fact one could make a strong argument that decriminalization or legalization would lead to higher usage and higher crime. The government would tax it? Different dealer then, but the same problems or worse.

[Big Red Porkers]

If you don't mind your kid blowing his/her brains on legalized drugs, then it would not be a problem for you.

Battling the things in life that are evil is much harder than just caving in to them. Anything worth anything doesn't come easy.

[CalHunter]

Making drug possession legal while keeping sales illegal is sort of like saying being pregnant is legal but having sex isn't. This sort of thinking completely ignores reality. Mexico's proposal to decriminalize possession of drugs so they can "battle the major traffickers" is laughable at best. Once Mexico defines the thresh hold for major traffickers, it immediately creates what is considered a legal amount for people to sell or traffic. Instead of wholesaling large amounts of drugs, traffickers can instead conduct more drug deals that are within the newly accepted maximum limits for NON-major trafficking.

Taking this idea further, decriminalizing drugs ignores the fact that over half (some experts estimate 3/4's) of the subjects arrested for various crimes (not including drug charges) were under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. Even if such drugs were legalized, there would still be manufacturing, shipping and distribution costs that most current users with a habit simply cannot afford. While there are recreational drug users, most users are not able to control their drug use and also cannot afford through legal means to pay for their addiction. This lack of financial ability to pay for their drug use costs results in a majority of illicit drug users stealing and committing other crimes (like manufacturing methamphetamine, etc.) to pay for their habit with ill gotten gains.

Mexico's proposal is absurd and completely ignores the reality of how to fix their current problem--How to gain legal status for Mexicans desiring to work in the U.S. If mexico was smart, they would press for some kind of expedited guest worker process whereby their citizens could gain legal status to work in the U.S. for a specified time period, have legal driving licenses, not overwhelm the health care system and pay their fair share of infrastructure costs. Instead of getting $12 billion a year back, they might get $10 billion to start but that amount would quickly grow once there was a systematic and fair method for allowing Mexicans to work in the U.S. without becoming U.S. citizens. Regardless of one's position on legalizing drugs, drug sales only benefit a few people and leave most with legal problems, bad drug habits and a poor income. Drugs simply do not enrich a large segment of the population and are a drain on public resources.

Illegal drugs are illegal for a variety of reasons which include no socially redeeming qualities, high probablity of addiction and various health and criminal activity problems. In short, drugs are illegal because they create problems.

[kevin1]

If you don't mind your kid blowing his/her brains on legalized drugs, then it would not be a problem for you.

Once my kids turned 18 their lives became their own , I have no right to tell them what to do . If they choose to do drugs that's their choice to make whether the law and I like their choice or not . They don't like the fact that I drink , but it's none of their business either . This is a nation founded on the concept of freedom of the individual , read up on it sometime .

You really think the average junkie could feed his habit flippin' burgers?

He could if the junk he was buying from a state controlled source charged 2 cents on the dollar compared to criminals looking to maximize their profits . Current recreational drugs in general aren't all that expensive to manufacture . Quality would also be controlled to ensure a consistant product free of impurities much like the food we all eat . Once the profit motivation was removed , backed by long sentences for unauthorized trafficking , the criminal element would abandon the drug trade since there would be no money to be made . Many years ago alcohol was criminalized and the result was that the action laid the foundation for organized crime to flourish both here and worldwide . The same holds true for drugs or anything else when people can't get what they want .

Yes , some folks will always overindulge , and some of those will become addicted . Surprise ! They would have anyway no matter what position the law takes . Part of the new revenue from decriminalized drugs use would have to be set aside for treatment programs as stated , although most drug users are not in fact addicted by clinical definition . The residual revenue could take up the slack in social programs , public works and infrastructure programs , and many other areas that just don't have the funding they need .

The seeds from hemp can be crushed to yield an oil that is not only edible but can be used as a source of vegetable based petroleum , the only petro product you cannot make from it is gasoline . The remains can be used as high quality animal feed . Hemp produces the world's strongest natural fiber , and acre for acre produces more paper pulp than trees in a shorter time frame . Hemp grows in the wild everywhere except Antarctica , trees don't . The remaining biomass can be fermented to produce alcohol , methane , and edible proteins . Marijuana grown in the prescense of hemp or even withing a mile of it will become hopelessly cross pollinated and therefore useless . Hemp used to be widely grown in this country before WW2 when it was replaced by nylon , if grown on the scale that it used to be it could theoretically wipe out illicit outdoor growing of marijuana by itself by grossly diluting the quality of the illicit product . But why would anyone want to grow it or buy it from criminals when they could just stop by Budz R Us on the way home from work and just buy a bongload ?

Drugs are an ugly problem , just like hemmorhoids , and both have to be dealt with . Since criminalizing them has thus far failed then perhaps decriminalization deserves a second look .

[burniegoeasily]

ORIGINAL: Aught Six

I support the legalization of all recreational drugs. I don't see any reason to criminalize behavior so long as it doesn't hurt any party but the user. Besides reinforcing the concept of personal liberty, it would most likely empty out a significant segment of the prison population and save our public services a lot of money.

Now, regarding Mexico...call me a nut, but I think thisbill is a deliberate attempt to overwhelm our domesticlaw enforcement resources. Drug traffic is going to increase along the border as Americans head south for a legal high (things are already bad withkingpins and dealers shooting each other over turf in the city streets), and the Border Patrol and other agencies are going to be forced to deal with this. That takes manpower, time, and money.

Fox and the Mexican government are pissed about the anti-illegal backlash in the American public and the bill the House passed last month. This is one way they can fight back in the political war.

Just think of the money we would save by reducing the D.E.A. to nothing, as well as the money created by taxing the products. Win win.

Fox is afraid he will lose his number two monetary resource, the money sent back to Mexico by illegals.

[burniegoeasily]

Yes , some folks will always overindulge , and some of those will become addicted . Surprise !

Yes they do. And most people think by keeping them illegal is solving this problem. Let me pause for laughter here.