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Old 01-22-2006, 09:21 AM   #1
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Default If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

Here is the definition of a Domestic Terrorist. If someone decides you are a domestic terroists you do not have the right to a lawyer,due process and the goverment does not have to tell your family you are in custody.


a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended:

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:38 AM   #2
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

Let's say the "patriot act" is made the law of the land.Hillary Clinton is elected President and her admistration decides to start dismantling the second Amendement. You and a bunch of your friends get togethor to protest,and are labled a domestic terroists. What recourse will you have?

Or what if something like Waco or Ruby Ridge happens again?

Or if you go to a few websites the goverment decides they don't like or you take a few books out they determine to be subversive?

Or they listen to one of your phone conversations and they don't like what they hear?

What could happen to some one in the future if they were to make a speech like Heston did in front of the NRA? Could the words "from my cold dead hands" make that person a domestic terroist?
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:53 AM   #3
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

Add into this equation the National Id card, (the new drivers license )which btw you need to purcahase a gun, and this slippery slope gets a little grease thrown on to it.
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:03 AM   #4
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Then you can expect to hear why we really do need the Patriot act II, you can read the bill here.

http://www.eff.org/Censorship/Terrorism_militias/patriot2draft.html

Here is some of what it includes.

[ul][*]Americans could have their citizenship revoked, if found to have contributed "material support" to organizations deemed by the government, even retroactively, to be "terrorist." As Hentoff wrote in the Feb. 28 Village Voice: "Until now, in our law, an American could only lose his or her citizenship by declaring a clear intent to abandon it. But -- and read this carefully from the new bill -- 'the intent to relinquish nationality need not be manifested in words, but can be inferred from conduct.'" (Italics Hentoff's.)

[*]Legal permanent residents (like, say, my French wife), could be deported instantaneously, without a criminal charge or even evidence, if the Attorney General considers them a threat to national security. If they commit minor, non-terrorist offenses, they can still be booted out, without so much as a day in court, because the law would exempt habeas corpus review in some cases. As the American Civil Liberties Union stated in its long brief against the DSEA, "Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus -- a protection guaranteed by the Constitution -- since the Civil War."

[*]The government would be instructed to build a mammoth database of citizen DNA information, aimed at "detecting, investigating, prosecuting, preventing or responding to terrorist activities." Samples could be collected without a court order; one need only be suspected of wrongdoing by a law enforcement officer. Those refusing the cheek-swab could be fined $200,000 and jailed for a year. "Because no federal genetic privacy law regulates DNA databases, privacy advocates fear that the data they contain could be misused," Wired News reported March 31. "People with 'flawed' DNA have already suffered genetic discrimination at the hands of employers, insurance companies and the government."

[*]Authorities could wiretap anybody for 15 days, and snoop on anyone's Internet usage (including chat and email), all without obtaining a warrant.

[*]The government would be specifically instructed not to release any information about detainees held on suspicion of terrorist activities, until they are actually charged with a crime. Or, as Hentoff put it, "for the first time in U.S. history, secret arrests will be specifically permitted."

[*]Businesses that rat on their customers to the Feds -- even if the information violates privacy agreements, or is, in fact, dead wrong -- would be granted immunity. "Such immunity," the ACLU contended, "could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft's Operation TIPS."

[*]Police officers carrying out illegal searches would also be granted legal immunity if they were just carrying out orders.

[*]Federal "consent decrees" limiting local law enforcement agencies' abilities to spy on citizens in their jurisdiction would be rolled back. As Howard Simon, executive director of Florida's ACLU, noted in a March 19 column in the Sarasota Herald Tribune: "The restrictions on political surveillance were hard-fought victories for civil liberties during the 1970s."

[*]American citizens could be subject to secret surveillance by their own government on behalf of foreign countries, including dictatorships.

[*]The death penalty would be expanded to cover 15 new offenses.

[*]And many of PATRIOT I's "sunset provisions" -- stipulating that the expanded new enforcement powers would be rescinded in 2005 -- would be erased from the books, cementing Ashcroft's rushed legislation in the law books. As UPI noted March 10, "These sunset provisions were a concession to critics of the bill in Congress."[/ul]
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:23 AM   #5
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

Charlie P it kind ofmakes you wonder what the results would have been had J. Edgar Hoover had the Patriot Act. The best I can remember from reading a little is that Mr. Hoover was pretty good at abusing power.

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Old 01-22-2006, 10:30 AM   #6
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

Because the abuse is done in such incremental steps is the reason many don't even recognize it as abuse. To call this thing the "patriot act" is orwellian double-speak right out of the shoot. I can't believe we don't hear more opposition from congressional members. It's all politics. I guess if members come out against it too strongly they are branded as "soft" of terrorism. The founding fathers must be cringing.
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:31 AM   #7
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

One thing that really worries me is that many of the people that have called ma a liberal on this forum in the past, are the ones that have no problem with the dismantling of our Constitution.
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Old 01-22-2006, 11:34 AM   #8
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

Many times throughout history, governments that have gone south did so by making only incremental changes that were almost unnoticeable at the time. Slowly, very small groups of people were alienated and given some unpatriotic label, as the government waived flags and military power proudly in front of everyone else's face. By the time enough people realized what was going on to have made a difference, it was already too late. They were already subjects of the Hitler's, Stalins, and Mussolini's of the world.

As I stated in an earlier post on another thread, if this crap is allowed to pass and become law, then all the government will have to do is redefine the term "terrorist" to broaden their powers and take away rights from a continually larger and larger group of people.
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Old 01-22-2006, 11:35 AM   #9
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This guy didn't have anything to worry about because he didn't do anything wrong.

Until the FBI got his finger print wrong,cough cough.

Secret Intelligence Searches
In May 2004, Brandon Mayfield, an attorney in Portland, Ore., and a convert to Islam, was arrested in connection with the March 11, 2004, Madrid bombings that left 191 people dead. He was held for two weeks as a "material witness."
Mayfield was released after the FBI admitted his fingerprint had been mistakenly matched with one found at the scene of the Madrid attacks. The FBI has described this as a rare mismatch of a fingerprint that reveals little about the Patriot Act.
But the government has admitted to Mayfield that his home was searched secretly under a special court order authorized for intelligence purposes. The American Civil Liberties Union says that the search amounts to an abuse of the Patriot Act: It was conducted as though it were an intelligence search, when in fact agents were looking for evidence to use in a criminal prosecution.
Mayfield is suing the Justice Department for violating his civil liberties, saying he was singled out because he is a Muslim. Critics of the Patriot Act say Mayfield's case underscores the law's potential for abuse.
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Old 01-22-2006, 12:11 PM   #10
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Default RE: If you didn't do anything wrong why worry ??

I am not comfortable with everything in the proposed Patriot Act 2 legislation as I do not wish to see our constitutional and civil liberties eroded either. Having said that, it is obvious that there need to be some changes so scumbag foreign terrorists can't hide behind our laws. I think a lot more effort needs to be made to find a way to give the FBI, etc. the tools they need to combat terrorism while still maintaining our rights. I think this is possible but it will take a little more creative thinking than we've seen so far. It will also require a means to ensure we don't have idiotic judges obstructing the process. I believe there is a place for good judges being involved in the process and for protecting our rights. However, we don't seem to have a remedy for removing incompetent judges that is functional.
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