Mind Fodder. ACLU/Evolution/Christianity

[burniegoeasily]

Every day, or at least it seems every day, we hear of a law suit where the ACLU or other lawyers are suing an organization for having ties with Christianity. Done so under the shroud of it being an offensive message. If it is offensive to non Christians to be exposed to the teachings of Jesus, shouldn't it be equally offensive inundating Christians with Darwinism?
[/align]I would rather not get into a debate as to which is the right practice, but more so on the very present discrimination practiced by an organization that is coined as a group to protect everyone's rights. What do you think.[/align]

[vc1111]

I thnk that the prosecution of Christian words and messages is a direct result of the imposition of Christianity in our schools in days past.

This country has always had and promoted freedom of religion...except in our schools. There only Christianity was promoted. Now it is hunted in all places except places of worship.

[burniegoeasily]

I thnk that the prosecution of Christian words and messages is a direct result of the imposition of Christianity in our schools in days past.

Ill agree, and the operative words here are, "in days past".

This was just a random thought I had. Will there be a counter flow? Who knows.

[Knightia]

I see many longing& wishing for things tobe like- in days past.

Are the present days so much different then yesterdays ?But things do change for sure.

As for the aclu i see nothing that they do as fair or equal to ALL at all ussally.

Selective sight on there part- guided by poltices etc?

[MThunter]

I certainly do not agree with everything the ACLU does, but they are not a valueless organization. Someone needs to rock the boat and question the status quo, and that rarely comes from the right. Also, someone needs to represent the minority, and without the ACLU, a lot of legitimate issues would never come before courts because of financial reasons. They need to get behind the 2nd amendment, and until they do, they're misrepresenting themselves as protectors of the constitution.

[MarkIIVT]

Excellent start to a refreshing look at what we want in our society, and what we do not want and how the consititution protects what is best.

Fist Amendment issues: There is NOT a per se seperation of church and state as so many argue. There is however the establishment and excercise clauses. The ACLU (whom I used to support even when I did not agree with them over a decade ago) is SOO FAR left anymore, and is NOT about Civil Liberties, anymore, but about Secular progressiveness (far left and they are receiving a ton of money).

THe state cannot endorse or establish a religion, and the Christians (of which I am one) should knock off this fundamentalist crap. Religion should be allowed in school and taught in a seperate class, but NOT a Science, history, physics, language, etc.class. IF you allow one version of religion in the classroom, you have to allow all, and the creationsism/YEC/ID lot isa biblical based issue, and not science since science by it's nature does not allow the "supernatural" as a measurable observable entity. Science does NOT say that God does not exist, or did not create the universe, it just says we can't measure it. If is like a ball dropping off a table, what caused it to happen? Well, God (Buhda, Allah, Jah-weh, heap-big-magic, etc.), which may be the case, but not measurable. And, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want or want to have a God that is measurable or measured, nor do I want a spiritual leader to tell me that I have to believe something that is false in order to be a "true believer".

If the ACLU was doing it's job as per it's charter, it would have to get behind the ID/YEC wave and argue that their freedom of excercise is being infringed upon (it would loose that of course).

Knight A:

I see many longing& wishing for things tobe like- in days past.

Are the present days so much different then yesterdays ?But things do change for sure.

As for the aclu i see nothing that they do as fair or equal to ALL at all ussally.

Selective sight on there part- guided by poltices etc?

Wishing and longing for days past is not a trip or a direction to take for the future. Things do change, but "VALUES" do not. I think much of the "Christian Values" have eroded, and IMO, it is on the side of those that think they are the standard barrers and keepers of the faith is where the valuse have eroded. Like Pat Robertson, and Fred Phelps and their ilk.

I have a problem reckoning my faith and spiritual journey with the losers that are put up as "Leaders in the Christian Community" Like the guy whowas the Christian Coalition leader in the Abrahmhoff dirt issue.

I also have a problem with the ACLU, being totalywhacked, WAY LEFT, and anti-christian. Ihate theidea of Christmas not being able to be celebrated as CHRISTMAS. I agree with U KnightA.

Things are just WAY to polarized. It is always absolutes from the left and right. Here we are on a 2nd amendmentstrong site, and discussing about a (certian or chosen) religion being in school. All amendments must be adhered to.

They (ACLU) need to get behind the 2nd amendment, and until they do, they're misrepresenting themselves as protectors of the constitution.

I agree 100% there MTHunter. You got that one exactly correct. They get no support form me until they Knock off the CHristmas stuff and start supporting the 2nd amend.


I believe the majority ofAmericans are Middle with values, and are not absolute on either end of the political spectrum. That I believe is the American value.

Thanks to Bernie and others et. al.

We need more discussions like this.

[AlaskaMagnum]

ORIGINAL: burniegoeasily

Done so under the shroud of it being an offensive message. If it is offensive to non Christians to be exposed to the teachings of Jesus, shouldn't it be equally offensive inundating Christians with Darwinism?

[/align][/align]

Well, it would be if Darwinism were a religion. It is not. It is a scientific theory. Religion is based upon the spiritual world, not the physical world. At least that is how I see it.

[Briman]

The Founders of the ACLU were avowed Communists (communists with a big 'C'). Knowing this little fact makes the ACLU's intentions and goals crystal clear.

Well, it would be if Darwinism were a religion. It is not. It is a scientific theory. Religion is based upon the spiritual world, not the physical world.

Yup, Faith.
There is some evidence to support evolution but most of it has to be taken as a matter of faith. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes while all other primates have 24 pairs. Noone has ever explained how primates ditched a pair of chromosomes to evolve into humans. Such glaring gaps in the theory are glossed over as a matter of faith.

[MarkIIVT]

The Founders of the ACLU were avowed Communists (communists with a big 'C'). Knowing this little fact makes the ACLU's intentions and goals crystal clear.



[blockquote]quote:

Well, it would be if Darwinism were a religion. It is not. It is a scientific theory. Religion is based upon the spiritual world, not the physical world.
[/blockquote]


Yup, Faith.
There is some evidence to support evolution but most of it has to be taken as a matter of faith. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes while all other primates have 24 pairs. Noone has ever explained how primates ditched a pair of chromosomes to evolve into humans. Such glaring gaps in the theory are glossed over as a matter of faith.

First off Briman, the issue of ACLU founded by Communists?!?! I call BS on that one immediately. If that is your OPINION I can deal with that, but that is far from fact.

Second with the Chromosones and the "missing pair" is BS and centeral to the issue of poor Christian leadership. This is NOT what Bernie wanted this thread to decompose to. That type of inflammatory, unsubstianciated statements is exactly why I do not trust either the Lefty Liberals or the "evangelical Christian leadership" both sides are lying to promote their vision and agenda, and taking a shortcut through the facts.

Either of these viewpoints will catch a lot of flack from the MAJORITY of AMERICANS in my opinion. I believe the American public is neither that far left, nor your version of what conservatism is (shich is not conservatism at all ironically).

I recommend everyone to read a very good book that will let you see the differences in politics today.

It is "Conscience of a COnservative"by Barry Goldwater. Political Conservatism is not what either the Far Left or the Evangelicals think conservatism is.

[Briman]

That type of inflammatory, unsubstianciated statements is exactly why I do not trust either the Lefty Liberals or the "evangelical Christian leadership" both sides are lying to promote their vision and agenda, and taking a shortcut through the facts.

If you can't deal in facts and want to scream your rhetoric, bite me.

My statement was that the evolution theory is baseed on as as much 'faith' as Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. People who insist that 'evolution' is factual and infallible are no less fanatical than people of other faiths.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3775.html
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/202005g.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACLU
http://www.claremont.org/writings/040609palm_kran.html
http://www.angelfire.com/mi4/stokjok/Founders.html
https://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=31&art_id=30191
http://www.etherzone.com/2004/beam091604.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Nash_Baldwin