Do we allunderstand that our government engages in illegal activity in the name of defense, or is it just the "black helicopter" conspiracy theorists among us who think so? Doesn't the domestic spying program reveal what a lot of us suspected all along?
I think we can safely say that at various levels, our gov't has done illegal things covertly throughout our history. How do you feel about that? Though technically illegal, can you imagine scenariosin whichthe ends may have justified the means? Maybe, in 1986, Reagan ordered that a captured Cuban spy be tortured until he gave the whereabouts of a nuclear bomb on our soil, allowing for that catastrophy to be averted... (I know it's pretty Hollywood of me). If however, this were revealed as truth, would you be upset, or thankful that such a bomb didn't kill a thousands of Americans?
Should we be upset when we find out the gov't actually does what we suspect they do? Would you rather be blissfully ignorant?
Lastly, is anyone remotely upset that this covert, secret operation was leaked in the first place? Are you concerned that the press may release other national secrets willy-nilly and that they seem to have the sources in place to do so?
Prior to the 40s our citizenry did wallow in blissful ignorance and believed that their goob was always acting in their best interest . Once some of the dirt began to filter out from under the rug in the 50s and 60s the tide turned . In a recent poll 49% of Americans surveyed thought that Congress was corrupt , not just a few legislators , the entire Congress . I prefer to know even if it sucks , ignorance isn't bliss when the folks who make the laws don't follow them themselves . It's either right or it's not .
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Kevin Haendiges
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Do we allunderstand that our government engages in illegal activity in the name of defense, or is it just the "black helicopter" conspiracy theorists among us who think so? Doesn't the domestic spying program reveal what a lot of us suspected all along?
Intresting questions eto . Black helos are real.And yes the spying programs are NOTvery suprizing. I agree 50-60-70 yrs ago The ppl where much more trusting of what they thought the goverment would do.(But even our forfathersknewof the possibilitys of our goverment turning tyrant)
The power of our goverment cant go unckecked.But neither can we have our hands tied behind our backs either .Our enemys are both internal& external.
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Lastly, is anyone remotely upset that this covert, secret operation was leaked in the first place? Are you concerned that the press may release other national secrets willy-nilly and that they seem to have the sources in place to do so?
Unless stoped the press etcwill release all it can.They do it in the name of keeping the ppl informed.In part that is true to.But the news/storys are of hype& drama& the making of the news itself& public opinionsalso& it also indangers ppls lives & keeps our enemys just as "informed" as we are.
If you are a terrorist you just watch the news & they will tell you the best,weakest targets to hit-such as chemical plants & waste dumps etc.( there have been many news programs like it)
Do they do it so changes can be made or for the drama?.Its free info& the damages would be done& the same either way. You remember them lighting up the troopswith there movie camara lights on a few occasions.
To keep the ppl informed? Or to form the publics opinions?And it all seemspretty one sided& slanted for the most partthere attempts atwhat is called news.(but it seems effictive also)
Either way they made them OUR troopsbetter targets for our enemys& indangered there(our) lives, while making there news.
I would torture the cuban if need be- to save 1000 American livesOr even 1000 Cuban lives.
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Let others praise ancient times; I am glad I was born in these.-- Ovid (43 B.C.-A.D. 18)
Things ain't what they used to be and probably never was. ~Will Rogers
Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
"Shouldn't someone tag Mr. Kennedy's 'bold new imaginative program' with its proper age?" "Under the tousled boyish haircut it is still old Karl Marx—first launched a century ago.
There is nothing new in the idea of a government being Big Brother to us all. R.Reagan-1960
If you are a terrorist you just watch the news & they will tell you the best,weakest targets to hit-such as chemical plants & waste dumps etc.( there have been many news programs like it)
I heard that, years back, the US was able to spy on Osama at will because of his dependence on satelite phones. Then, Dateline or 20-20 or something exposed that fact, and Osama never used a satelite phone again.
Do we allunderstand that our government engages in illegal activity in the name of defense, or is it just the "black helicopter" conspiracy theorists among us who think so? Doesn't the domestic spying program reveal what a lot of us suspected all along?
Yes, it does. Are you saying that since we can now verify it, we should all just ignore it?
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I think we can safely say that at various levels, our gov't has done illegal things covertly throughout our history. How do you feel about that?
Pretty open ended here, and hard to answer. Illegal activity could be Al Gore using the Whitehouse phone for making solicitations for campaign donations or it could be the denying of an American citizen his right to a speedy trial. Apples and Oranges
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Though technically illegal, can you imagine scenariosin whichthe ends may have justified the means? Maybe, in 1986, Reagan ordered that a captured Cuban spy be tortured until he gave the whereabouts of a nuclear bomb on our soil, allowing for that catastrophy to be averted... (I know it's pretty Hollywood of me). If however, this were revealed as truth, would you be upset, or thankful that such a bomb didn't kill a thousands of Americans?
You are justifying actions by a Machiavellian philosophy of the end justifies the means. Quite honestly, that is certianly NOT the principle that his country was found on, and is in fact, an edict followed by fuedalistic lords in Tudor Europe.
In your scenario, the cuban spy is not an American citizen and not afforded the protection under our Constitution, so the comparison to what has gone on recently (to American citizens protected by our Bill of Rights) is not even remotely comparable.
The bottom line is that if Bush really believes he needs to do covert spying of American citizens, the FISA courts provide him an opportunity to do it. If he feels that he still needs more secrecy, he should have gotten the approval of Congress if he could. This is a representative Republic, not a dictatorship. If our elected representatives felt that the survelliance was justified, they could grant the permission via the legistlative process. If they did not, then as these are our elected officials, we should be prepared to suffer the consequences. In a nutshell, there areprotocols to be followed, anything else is an abuse of power, whether it is in our best interests or not.
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Should we be upset when we find out the gov't actually does what we suspect they do? Would you rather be blissfully ignorant?
No! I trust my wife, my kids, and my dogs, in that order. I am a big boy, and I can handle the truth.
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Lastly, is anyone remotely upset that this covert, secret operation was leaked in the first place? Are you concerned that the press may release other national secrets willy-nilly and that they seem to have the sources in place to do so?
The press certianly has been a problem at times, yet our founding fathers seemed to believe that a free press was perhaps, the Ultimate check and balance for a democratic society.
Do you know anyone who grew up under Communism? I do. Find someone who grew up in Soviet Russia or Romania or Cuba or whatever. Ask them about a free press and what it means to a people. It might change your opinion on some things.
The bottom line is that if Bush really believes he needs to do covert spying of American citizens, the FISA courts provide him an opportunity to do it. If he feels that he still needs more secrecy, he should have gotten the approval of Congress if he could. This is a representative Republic, not a dictatorship. If our elected representatives felt that the survelliance was justified, they could grant the permission via the legistlative process. If they did not, then as these are our elected officials, we should be prepared to suffer the consequences. In a nutshell, there areprotocols to be followed, anything else is an abuse of power, whether it is in our best interests or not.
I agree with this.
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Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
I prefer to know even if it sucks , ignorance isn't bliss when the folks who make the laws don't follow them themselves . It's either right or it's not .
I agree Kev -
And i would like my polticans spyed on heavly while anywhere& doing anything in public& pertaining to there jobs - they work forme i want to know whats going on- bribery/payoffs skimming the fat & imminity from laws as ussall busness dosnt work for me
__________________
Let others praise ancient times; I am glad I was born in these.-- Ovid (43 B.C.-A.D. 18)
Things ain't what they used to be and probably never was. ~Will Rogers
Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.
"Shouldn't someone tag Mr. Kennedy's 'bold new imaginative program' with its proper age?" "Under the tousled boyish haircut it is still old Karl Marx—first launched a century ago.
There is nothing new in the idea of a government being Big Brother to us all. R.Reagan-1960
I believe if we are to live under the rule of law then we must expect/demand the government "live"under the rule of law as well. If the law isn't a good one then it should be changed but I believe that turning a blind eye to governement ageincies flaunting the law only leads to greater and greater disregard for it. IMO, unchecked the cancer grows to a point where theveryenterprisethat the goalis to protect, is ultimately destroyed.
Gov't, covert/illegal operations etc...
