What do you think about this?

[mr-pirk]

This thread was posted on another forum, somehow I can't help but be disturbed by the replies,
atleast I can agree with Charles Bradford.
I would hope I would show more compassion than most of the replys. I figure I will be a minority on the issue though.


5 men caught poaching in Colorado

The following is from an email I received from DOW in Colorado. Cheers to the person who called and cheers to the Colorado DOW officers who investigated.

A group of five hunters from Arkansas were arrested and all pled guilty to charges of not hunting with a license, illegal possession and taking of wildlife and hunting with firearms in archery season. All received fines ranging from $2,835 to $1,328 and were assessed various points against hunting and fishing priviledges. All 5 men chose to admit guilt, waive their right to trial, and pay the assessed fines. The men still face administrative action by the Colorado Wildlife Commission that could result in the loss of hunting and fishing priviledges in Colorado and 18 other Wildlife Violator Compact member states.

It should be noted that the Colorado DOW stressed without information provided from a concerned citizen, the individuals may have continued their illegal activities. The 5 men were in the Red Park area north of Steamboat Springs.


replies

Read that yesterday...serves them right and I am glad they gor caught!!



Throw the book at them. They steal from us all.



Hang them bozo's



Here,Here!



They got off light.



Two years ago we had some out-of-state poachers nabbed by the PGC. Their vehicles were confiscated, that included a 3 month old Ford 3/4 ton, the guns, and all gear that was in the vehicle along with a substantial fine for each. The guy that lost the pickup was pissed because he just made the first payment on a 6 year contract. He now owes on a vehicle that he no longer owns. I LOVE IT

They got off easy. They will pay the fine and be back next year to poach again!
In NV, it is now a FELONY to poach big game. A guy a couple years ago poached an elk. Had his 4 wheeler, gun, spotting scope, etc. taken and still got hit with a fine. No Felony though, it was just before the law passed. Behind the Sheriff's office, we have a Ford pick-up that was used while poaching. That happened in July, doubt they will get that truck back!!



I think it is crap to take peoples items for killing an animal.Taking some thing that a man has bought and payed for is steeling.The only way taking some thing is right is if it was bought with bad maney.

I do think that there is many many better ways to teach them a leson.Like maby puting up some signs to show where public land starts.Cleening trash out of our woods.Planting some trees,there is tons of things they could do that would HELP our hunting.There is tons of things people call poaching that are not what I think should fall in to poaching.Like retriving an animal that goes to private property and dies 20 yards over the fence.Any law that is broak is now considered poaching.To me poaching is shooting a animal with no tag or the roung weapon.

Poaching is very very bad.I had a very good deer place cleened out by rifle shooters in bow season.It is not uncomon to see some one here in MT with a rifle shot elk in bow season.

I say humilating them by making them do grunt work to help our animals/hunting is way better than steeling there items and charging them a few bucks.

Charles Bradford


If it was used in the commission of the crime take everything. I think it is a very effective tool.If you were stealing then it is just punishment to have items confiscated and sold to pay for your crime.
Don't like it...... Then don't break the law and you should have no problems

Justice served??
I wonder if anything other than the animals was confiscated? The fine amount doesn't seem to fit the crime. The hunters must have money in order to drive from Arkansas to Colorado. They obviously clearly had plans to POACH. They got off easy!!


I say hit them where it hurts -- in their pocket book. I bet that guy who lost his truck doesn't ever poach again. But beyond him, how many people will hear of this and be further discouraged from poaching?

Now, I grant their might be someone who unknowingly violates a hunting law or regulation. I don't think someone who violates the law through ignorance should suffer as much as someone who boldly, knowingly violates the law. I'm not going to go into particulars, but five fellows doing rifle hunting during archery season I would not consider "ignorance" of the law but willful disregard for the law. Also, I gather from the original post that no licenses -- not even rifle season licenses -- were held by these five guys.

Rock their world. I bet they won't do it again.

I agree with most... not nearly enough. Hang em



The fine should have been $10,000 or 5yrs in prison or both!!!


Glad to hear it. I always remember the phrase Sportsmen Policying Our Ranks Togethers (Sport) from my hunter ed. classes. It is nice to hear that someone stepped forward and did the right thing.



I can see people are more woried about trying to get money than teaching a leson to them.It is just like chatching the guys who buy sex.humiliating them is way worse than just geting there money.

As for sending them to prison is nuts.Our prisons are allready full.Hell people that kill people dont even get 5 years now.

I do not think the fish and game are taking the trucks/items to hurt the guy poaching.TheyAre doing it to sell them all so the state can have get more money.

So if you hit a person when speeding they should take you truck.You broak the law so they should take the item you used to break the law.

I know the news never tells all sides.Not saying they are not guilty.Saying in many many times they tell how bad some one is for poaching.Than to find out they shot the elk/deer when trespassing.When there was no fence or singhs.But becouse he did not know where the line was he now lost his truck and any thing of value he had with him.And god help him if he took it home befor they cought him.BUT HE DID POACH IT SO HE SHOULD LOOSE ALL HIS ITEMS.

If they do not let the guys hunt for many years.All they do is make the guy more of a poacher.

As I said make him do things to help our hunting.Put him to work for the outdoors.Think about it,if you where cought speeding and they made you go fix the road insteed of paying a fine that would slow people down for sure.Take the car and now they are out of work just hoping YOU as a tax payer will help them pay the bills.

Thanks
Mr-Pirk

[vc1111]

Interesting topic, Mr. Pirk.

From what I've heard, many times the stuff that is confiscated can be retrieved by the owner by paying the appropriate fines.

It will be interesting to watch this thread unfold.

[gonzodemon]

i had a friend who shot bucky. bucky is a huge nontypical motorized deer that the TPW uses to catch poachers. he was coming home from the lake when he turned off the county road there he was just off the road in the ditch a once in a lifetime deer im talkin 190+ well he shot the deer and was swarmed by officers. they slammed him to the ground confiscated his truck ,boat, guns and four wheeler. he lost his liscence for 5 years and got about $1200 in fines. his small son was with him. as a result he lost his job his wife and his son . he committed suicide one year to the day of the incident. so i dont think i need to give my opinion. it wouldnt be nice to say so many bad words about the tpw. i think the fines were deserved and the loss of liscence and hunting rights. but to take a mans livelyhood over a deer a stuffed deer at that . that was placed there to trap a fellow who will never see a 190 class deer in the woods.

[CalHunter]

People do make mistakes and the punishment should fit the crime. In most cases, getting a stiff fine and loss of hunting privileges should be enough. However, there are certain people who make a business out of poaching that obviously deserve much more punishment. No, I don't mean your friend (a fine and loss of hunting privileges would have been appropriate for him). I'm thinking of those people who poach several animals in a year, use gill nets to take way more than their limit, kill endangered species (such as bald eagles), etc. Some people deserve to have the book thrown at them. Each case has to be judged according to its' specifics and careful judgement of penalties applied.

[gonzodemon]

i totaly agree . it should be on a case by case basis but i find that the local tpw find it amusing to take a mans belongings. i have heard them laughing in the local diner about how they were selling some real choice stuff at auction

[Briman]

For those posters on that site that said take everything and throw the book at them, I hope they have heard of theRICO law and I hope none of their teenage kids ever throws a party at their house in their absence that gets busted and one of the bustees is found with a big baggie of pot on their person.[:-]



I just read an article in a Wisconsin Outdoors type newspaper where WDNR agents busted 13 people, each with multiple counts of poaching over several years. Why were the WDNR officers allowing poaching to occur for several years other than to make a big headline grabbing bust and to confiscate as much property as possible? I guess some poaching is allowable if it means more dollar signs to the wildlife agency.[:@]

As for the mechanical deer- I always wanted to locate one that was on public property, crawl 60 feet from the centerline of the road (need to be 50 feet away from centerline in WI) and put round after round through its head. That would make an interseting court case if arrested, I would have to make sure that someone was along with a camera and a 100' tape measure though or you would have to rely on the honesty of the warden to not have the book thrown at you.

[mr-pirk]

Cal-Hunter
You maybe able to shed some better light on the laws of the land.

What struck me was how harsh most of the remarks were. I thought about the loss of trucks and four-wheelers and such.
Gonzo Demon gave a personal example. I know of several myself.

I remember several years ago where they arrested a woman for a shop-lifting ring, she was even using her kids as thieves, yet they didn't take her car that was parked in the store parking lot.

The folks that use their truck to go pick up a prostitute, should they lose their truck if they get busted?

Do DUI'ers lose their truck?

Should the person ticketed for speeding several times lose their truck?

Should a person that has parking tickets lose thier truck?

Think about the value of the items Gonzo Demon"s friend lost.

Is an in-effect fine of $20,000 truck + $6,000 4-wheeler + $1,000 gun

$27,000 dollar fine ever right for a game violation, maybe in a commercial violation case, but other wise, is it fair?

Thanks
Mr-Pirk
I don't know much about the law, but to me it seems the game law viotations carry some very harsh punishment, much harsher by comparasion than a lot of other law violations.

[Briman]

$27,000 dollar fine ever right for a game violation, maybe in a commercial violation case, but other wise, is it fair?

$27,000 fine for shooting a fake deer. If it were a real deer that hadn't been shot, chances are the deer would have been hit by a car or might not have survived the winter anyway. Fish and Game officers have way too much power if they can put the value of one of numerousanimals above a person's livelyhood.[:@]

[gonzodemon]

why is it not intrapment when they put a stuffed animal that is so unbelievably big that it makes a normaly honest man do a stupid thing .
why does a man who kills a deer illegaly get the same punishment that is usualy reserved for drug trafficers.

[North Texan]

Fish and Game officers have way too much power if they can put the value of one of numerousanimals above a person's livelyhood.[:@]

I can speak on the other side of this from experience. Back in the 80's and early 90's before Texas laws finally got into line, fines were about in line with traffic tickets. Usually about 1/10th to 1/3rd the price of a deer lease. So it was cheaper for people to poach even if they got caught every time than it was to do so legally.

The family ranch used to get hit about 3-4 times a week. Not only that, but the poachers would spotlight and shoot when they saw eyes shine. Nothing like living off about $15K a year, only to find a dead cow or two a month that ate $750 each off of that. On top of that, if you did catch somebody and reported them, you couldn't leave the place or sleep nights because if you ever left, the people you turned in would show up and kill a couple of cows for revenge.

When calling the law is no longer an effective option, your choice is to either do nothing while people threaten your livelihood or take matters into your own hands..........

After the laws changed, we invited Bucky and TPW down for a little visit on a couple of occaisions. In less than a years time, we weren't waking up to shots in the night and weren't losing any more livestock.

Consider this: TPW estimates that it may catch poachers one out of every ten times. My county is a one buck county. A lease goes for $1500/gun. Fining the poacher $15,000 or less isn't even punishing them. They could poach one deer a year, and get caught the average number of times, and stillcome out as good or better than if they had to hunt legally.