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Old 09-15-2005, 06:38 AM   #1
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Default Under God under attack again

Don't blame this on all athiests. I just skip the added phrase when I recite the pledge.

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance (search) in public schools was unconstitutional.
U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton (search) ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God." The judge has granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist who lost his previous battle before the U.S. Supreme Court.
Read the judge's opinion by clicking here (pdf provided by FindLaw).
Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow (search) that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.
"Imagine every morning if the teachers had the children stand up, place their hands over their hearts, and say, 'We are one nation that denies God exists,"' Newdow said in an interview with AP Radio after the ruling.
"I think that everybody would not be sitting here saying, 'Oh, what harm is that.' They'd be furious. And that's exactly what goes on against atheists. And it shouldn't."
The Supreme Court dismissed the case last year, saying Newdow lacked standing because he did not have custody of his elementary school daughter he sued on behalf of.
Newdow, an attorney and a medical doctor, filed an identical case on behalf of three unnamed parents and their children. Karlton said those families have the right to sue.
Karlton said he would sign a restraining order preventing the recitation of the pledge at the Elk Grove Unified, Rio Linda and Elverta Joint Elementary school districts in Sacramento County, where the plaintiffs' children attend.
Steven Ladd, superintendent of the Elk Grove Unified School District, said the district's school board has long supported allowing students to recite the pledge.
"We will continue to recite the pledge until ordered by the courts not to do so," Ladd said.
The board will consider the ruling at its next board meeting scheduled for Sept. 20, Ladd said.
The order would not extend beyond those districts unless it is affirmed by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (search) " in which case it could apply to nine western states " or the Supreme Court, which would apply to all states.
The decision sets up another showdown over the pledge in schools.
Andrew Napolitano, a senior judicial analyst for FOX News, said the ruling will not directly effect the rest of the nation, only Sacramento.
"There are federal judges who have ruled elsewhere in the U.S. the exact opposite of the way this federal judge has," Napolitano said, but "this case only affects the area of California in which he [the judge] sits."
He added that he expects appeals from the school districts, which then will make their way to the Supreme Court.
The Becket Fund, a religious rights group that is a party to the case, said it would immediately appeal the case to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. If the court does not change its precedent, the group would go to the Supreme Court.
"It's a way to get this issue to the Supreme Court for a final decision to be made," said fund attorney Jared Leland.
The decisions by Karlton and the 9th Circuit conflict with an August opinion by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Va. That court upheld a Virginia law requiring public schools lead daily Pledge of Allegiance recitation, which is similar to the requirement in California.
A three-judge panel of that circuit ruled that the pledge is a patriotic exercise, not a religious affirmation similar to a prayer.
"Undoubtedly, the pledge contains a religious phrase, and it is demeaning to persons of any faith to assert that the words `under God' contain no religious significance," Judge Karen Williams wrote for the 4th Circuit. "The inclusion of those two words, however, does not alter the nature of the pledge as a patriotic activity."
Karlton, appointed to the Sacramento bench in 1979 by President Carter, wrote that the case concerned "the ongoing struggle as to the role of religion in the civil life of this nation" and added that his opinion "will satisfy no one involved in that debate."
Karlton dismissed claims that the 1954 Congressional legislation inserting the words "under God" was unconstitutional. If his ruling stands, he reasoned that the school children and their parents in the case would not be harmed by the phrase because they would no longer have to recite it at school.
Terence Cassidy, a lawyer representing the school districts, said he was reviewing the opinion and was not immediately prepared to comment.
The case is Newdow v. Congress, 05-17. Read the judge's opinion by clicking here (pdf provided by FindLaw).
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:53 AM   #2
 
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:04 AM   #3
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

It's funny how people are relentless in their pursuit to kick God out of everything. Oh welll. Keep it up America, keep it up.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:29 AM   #4
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

With all the troubles in this country this is the bestthe courtscan argue about. I imagine this one will go on and on and on like usual. The Roberts confirmation stuff is on TV right now and they keep going over the same stuff. I know it is important but I wish for once they would take the politics out of it and just fairly question the man. Watching the Dems all lined up trying to turn up dirt makes me sick.If I were Roberts I would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:36 AM   #5
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

I can actually see both sides of the issue, but I just don't think it's that important of an issue at this time. If you don't want to say "under god" then don't say it, but I see no reason to change it in the courts.
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:07 AM   #6
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

Quote:
ORIGINAL: frizzellr

I can actually see both sides of the issue, but I just don't think it's that important of an issue at this time. If you don't want to say "under god" then don't say it, but I see no reason to change it in the courts.
absolutely right.

OF COURSE it's unconstitutional.

But WHO CARES!!!! we really have more important things to devote our attention to just now.[:'(]
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Old 09-15-2005, 10:23 AM   #7
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

So now, the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional! Newdow sure does spend all of his time arguing about something he doesn't even believe in. If he doesn't like it, skip that part. He's an idiot who can't stand not getting his way.
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Old 09-15-2005, 10:28 AM   #8
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

I would be outta here like Tardfarmer if I wrote what I would love to see them do with ALL of these "politically correct" ideas and laws!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-15-2005, 10:51 AM   #9
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Default RE: Under God under attack again

Actually the reason for adding it was kinda silly.
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:07 AM   #10
 
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