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Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

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Old 09-08-2005, 11:55 AM   #1
 
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:43 PM   #2
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

I agree with many points in the article and think too many people think in political terms like there are only 2 teams and you must defend your team no matter what. For a minority of people on both sides, all political discussion stops at the point of defending your team no matter what and their mind is already made up, don't confuse them with the facts. Unfortunately for us, most of these people work in the media, politics, think tanks, colleges and as unofficial (read useless) spokespeople for different groups and minorities.

I disagree with this article in that I think most people will argue and defend their beliefs but will also read/listen to opposing viewpoints, consider them and then adjust their beliefs/ viewpoints if they are persuaded to do so. I'd guess that a clear majority of members who post in the political section have been persuaded to change/alter their viewpoints.beliefs by cogent arguments posted on this forum.

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Clinton haters invented Rush Limbaugh and a whole new talk-radio genre taylored to righties filled with hatred for all things democrat - be they conservative or not.
Statements like this gloss over salient facts and perpetuate the concept of the 2-team analogy. Rush Limbaugh (whether you like him or not) felt driven to do what he's accomplished because he was intensely interested in things political, believed that the media overlooked people with views similar to his and was honestly prescient (and lucky) enough to see a golden opportunity (no pun intended) and take advantage of it.

Actually, Rush began his national show in 1988, during Bush 1's presidency. At that time, most Americans had never heard of Bill Clinton. Yes, Clinton provided a lot of ammo for Rush during his presidency 4 years after Rush had already started his show and still does to a smaller extent but Rush began his show with a Republican President and the belief that the media at that time was not addressing the needs of conservative thinkers. Obviously a lot of conservative people agree with that theory as Rush has the most popular radio show in history and has helped create a market and demand for several other conservative radio and TV shows.

I know a lot of people bash Rush on this forum but he still serves a useful purpose in that he does direct the national attention to certain issues that oft times get short shrift from other media sources. And once Rush addresses something, the rest are somewhat compelled to address that issue from their respective liberal and/or conservative viewpoints because that subject becomes a part of the national political discourse. And that isn't a bad thing. People need to talk about and think about more than just the limited political items portrayed on the evening TV news.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:56 PM   #3
 
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:00 PM   #4
 
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:07 PM   #5
 
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

I dont have the sources to cite but if i remember correctly didnt some of the framers also believe that "party politics" would undo all their efforts.

And wasnt George Washington in favor of declaring Neutrality after we won our independence?

If only they would have listened
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:46 PM   #6
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

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The above article is misleading and false in its charge that irrational "president hating" is new and unique to GWB --- in fact, it is old hat on both sides.

The article tries to dishonestly score "points" for the right by insinuating only lefties endulge in this juvenile persuit - again Clinton Haters abounded in the 90's and are very common on this board.

You should be well aware of this Cal..............
My opening paragraph stated I beleive some of the points in the article. I went on to agree that many people think in terms of a 2-team analogy. That was directed at your comments. since I didn't explain it well enough, I agree that SOME people on both sides display an irrational hatred of Clinton and Bush. Unfortunately, those extremeists on both sides get the lion's share of the press and coverage. Most people, if they responded honestly would find something they like about or agree with both Clinton and Bush.

For instance, I was glad to see Clinton pass the CITES legislation that allowed big game hunters to import their trophies from other countries if that animal was not an endangered animal in that country (i.e. polar bears from Canada, etc.) even though such an animal may be listed as endangered in our country. This was common sense legislation that solved a problem for hunters.

I happen to agree with Bush about cutting taxes. I think Bush drops the ball on that in that he doesn't veto any bills congress passes and thus abdicates his fiscal responsibility to make sure congress is passing balanced budgets.

I guess I should have explicated my thoughts more completely Ifferd but I was agreeing with you on most of your points. I was also keeping you honest about how Rush built up a considerable part of his media empire without Clinton's assistance. And yes, I readily admit that Clinton propelled Rush to further heights of success with all of the ammo that Clinton foolishly provided Rush.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:00 PM   #7
 
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

No question that there are people on both ends of the politcial spectrum. But I think the thing that deserves to be examined is the anger and hate within the Democratic party. Compare its chairman Howard Dean to Ken Mehlman. Compare the agenda of the Dems, which has little substance other than anger to that the Repubs.

Compare the shrill accusations and rantings of Dem congressional leaders like Nancy Pelosi and Hillary to those of the President, Denny Hastert and Bill Frist regardring Katrina. A person has to be blind not to recognize the anger and hatred in the elected Dem representatives. A ranting extremist on a BBS or a blog is one thing, when they are in Congress, it's quite another.


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Old 09-08-2005, 07:04 PM   #8
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

yes, it has been that way for a while. we need a true leader and i dont care if it rep. or dem. someone needs to represent the average joe. the economy has been going down the drain for some time now folks are stretched to the limit. as for the wars (thats with an S ) i have my doubts as to the way things are going but i do still support our pres.we need someone with enough guts to git-r-dun
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:37 AM   #9
 
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Default RE: It has been this way for a while........

There you go again, hunter. The economy has been going down hill for a long time? Based on what, other than your perception?
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Old 09-09-2005, 05:34 AM   #10
 
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