Help with IBO rules

[merwin10]

Hi Guys and Gals,

My Club is putting on its first ever IBO World Qualifier, in reading thru the rule book I have found a rule that is confusing - It has to do with Equipment rule III-A-1 & 2. The confusion comes with the definition of maximum shooting weight vs arrow weight - In the rule book it states "Shooting weight is defined as the maximum draw or thrust weight, whichever is greater." This pertains to arrow weight vs maximum draw weight!

Here is the scenario, we get a protest that inquires about an archer shooting an arrow lighter than the bows maximum draw weight. So you test the equipment you find that the archer has a bow that is set to draw 62 pounds which means the arrows must weigh 310 grains as a minimum. However the bow manufacturer has test and certified to the bows maximum draw weight as 80 pounds meaning the arrow needs to be 400 grains. Going back to the rule "Shooting weight is defined as the maximum draw or thrust weight, which ever is greater." So the maximum is 80 pounds so the archer is out of specification with a 310 grain arrow vs 400 grain arrow.

Next is the move to rule 2 "the exception". The only way to move to rule 2 is to crank the bow to its maximum weight 80 pounds, shoot a maximum grain arrow 400 grains,thru a chronograph and if it is not greater than 280 fps then you can move to rule 2.

So in our scenario we need to take the archers bow and crank it to 80 pounds grab a 400 grain arrow and fire it thru a chronograph. Less than 280 fps he can move to rule 2 - greater than 280 fps he is stuck with rule 1.

So here is thedilemma what archer is going to let you put an allen wrench to his setup to prove the rule. I surely would not - Would you? It took days if not weeks to tunethe bow and sight it in to get it just where I wanted it. When a rule is in question and protested you can not do anything other than what the rule says in writing.

My question is how do you interpret this rule? I feel the rule should be stated as such "Shooting weight is defined as the current setup draw or thrust weight of the bow regardless of the maximum draw or thrust weight" This makes the checking of equipment easy and the rule 2 "exception" move easier.

Now don't say, ask IBO, I have and I am still waiting for a response! So for all of you that have been doing IBO shoots what have you been doing in regard to these rules -

Thanks for your help ahead of time!

Mike -

[merwin10]

Ok, here is a little update on this question -Special thanks goes Ken Watkins IBO president for clearing up this issue!

First forget what it says in the rule book under rule III A 1. Here is what Ken had to say -

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Mike,


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[/align]The bow would be weighed on a bow scale. The peak weight in that process is the bows weight.


[/align]I would suggest you weigh the arrow first then the bow. Grain scales are just a little more consistent. Say the arrow weighs 300 grains. The rule for arrow weight to bow weight says that 300 grains is legal to 60 pounds. With allowance the bow could weigh up to 62 pounds and no more.


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[/align]Ken Watkins


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[/align]Well that is not quite what the rule says but if that is IBO interpretation that is OK with me! At least now ifwe have a protest I know how IBO views the issue!


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[/align]Mike -


edited - typo on Kens email "60 pounds and no more" should have been "62 pounds and no more"[/align]

[merwin10]

Hey Guys and Gals -

What is up with this forum! - Ok I am a newbie at this but is 126 reads noone has responded to this question. Some of you out there must have put on a IBO shoot and gone thru this before! Can someone please tell me how the host clubs have been interpreting this rule.

Mike - [>:]

[boarro10]

Hi Mike
The only way to know what a bow's shooting weight is to weigh it on a scale. When you pull the bow down the maxium weight on the scale is the bow's maxium weight as the rule says. The weight sticker on a bow means nothing. The weight the bow CAN be cranked up too means nothing. What it weighed last week means nothing. The maxium weight pulled when checking on the official scale is the official maxium weight of the bow. Same with the arrow. You check it at a shoot and that is the official weight of the arrow. If you have 5 grains of arrow weight for each pound of bow weight that was just weighed the equipment is legal. Rule B 2 allows for 2 pound of scale variance. Example: You weigh an arrow and it weighs 300 grains. The scale weighs the bow at 62 pounds. This would be legalequipment. If the bow weighed at 62.01 pounds the equipment would be illegal and the person would be disqualified.I hope this is clear. Pete

[Grnmtn]

It is also important to ask the shooter when you bring them to the table to check their equipment if they are going to use the arrow weight and draw weight check or the speed limit check of 280fps. It is shooters choise and they need to declare this before any checks are to be made. They can't use which ever one that their equipment passes they need to specify prior to checking.

[Uncle Paul]

I agree this is not clear. As a matter of fact I had a friend I was shooting with at Bedfordhave to goall the way back to the truck and get his other bow. When we first got to the range tent he weighed his bow and an arrow. It weighed a little over a pound heavy, than his scale at home. I told him he was ok because they give you 2 pounds for scale variance. The range official at the tent said nope, 5 grains that's what our chart says, whatever the scale reads is what we go by then we use 5 grains per pound with a 5 grain variance. I told them the rules were changed and was told we're using 5 grains. I don't blame the people at the tents, they were very freindly, but someone should have informed them and given them a new chart. A little better comunication to the people that bare the brunt of the complaints at the tents would be very helful. This was at the first tent at the top of the hill. We shoot MBO.

[merwin10]

My confusion on this comes from the definition of the draw or thrust weight stated as "Shooting weight is defined as the maximum draw or thrust weight which ever is greater." Well we all know that our bows have a maxium designed draw weight some never shootthe bowat that weight. So the question is a better definition "Shooting weight is the current set peak draw weight or thust weight which ever is greater".

With the message from Ken it seems as the 2 pound variation is gone! "Measure the arrow weight and the draw weight can not be more than 5 divided into that weight. Example is 300 grain arrow 60 pounds and no more"! This brings up another question from my committee, please remember this is our first IBO shoot and we are just trying to conformed to what everyone else is doing! Do you just measure one arrow or is it a average of the arrows in the quiver. I just seems to be easy to have one arrow that meets specification and the rest are lighter. My attitude is let the person weighing in the arrows choose which arrow to weigh randomly! - What are the rest of you doing? I really did not think there was that much cheating going on as we are all sportsmen, or is that sportspersons, sorry gals!

I guess it would make sense that if you check the fps first, as if the arrow is less than 280fps the grain weight of the arrow can be less than 5 grains/pound of draw weight-

It is just the wording that is confusing, I was wondering what all the other IBO shoots do so that we can comform with all the other shoots - Anyone know how it worked in Bedford?

Thanks Everyone for your replies -

Mike -

[boarro10]

Mike
I have checked equipment on the Pro ranges in Bedford the last several years. I ask how they want their equipment checked; weight or speed. The new ruling is you can have your equipment checked BOTH waysIF needed. They usually ask if I want to pick an arrow from their quiver. If they choose speed, 288 is the cut off number. This is the 280 FPS + a 3% cronograph variance. 289 =DQ. If they fail this test they can then ask for a weight check. I weigh their arrow and divide 5 into this arrow weight. This numberis the maxium weight allowed for that arrow. You can then add 2 pounds for scale variation per rule A 1 on page 5 of the new rule book. I gave an example of this in the post above. Pete

[merwin10]

Hi Pete -

Thanks for the reply - I know this is suppose to beso simple! It is just the way the rules are worded in the new rule book IBO sent. I am leaning towards exactly what you stated! I figure that the lastest IBO was Bedford and if we stay with that it is a sure bet! It is nice to have someone with knowledge of how it was just done to reply! As I said this is our first IBO World Qualifier and we want to conform to how all the archers expect us to do this measurement. I think these rules need some more thought and better wording! Hope IBO considers that at the annual meeting -

The way you do it makes allot more sense than the way it is in the new rule book -

Thanks Again for your explaination -

Mike -

[boarro10]

Mike
Some clubs make a chart with arrow weights and maxium poundage side by side to have at the check station. Less chance for error and is lots faster. Good luck on your first qualifier and the main thing to remember is to have fun and enjoy yourselves. If the host club has a smile on their face and has good food the folks will come back. We sometimes forget that archery is FUN. Even when I don't shoot I still enjoy the great folks I have met over the years. Pete