Ramblings on Alt, HR, AR, WM, Buck/doe ratio...

[StalkingFanatic]

Hi all,

Just some ramblings and observations of the hunting season and the last three years.

I have been following Dr. Gary Alt's plans and visions with interest. I was at several meetings back when the NEW and IMPROVED version of Wildlife Management was hitting the market.

I was very excited about AR. I was a little hesitant about the proposed herd reduction. My uncle was very excited about the whole idea of HR/AR.

We own 600+ acres of woodland. we spend countless hours there in the summer months and during archery. This year seven of us hunted that area.

this is how this rifle season went for us...
person 1. 7 days. saw 2 doe. saw 0 buck. harvested 1 deer.
person 2. 7 days. saw 2 doe. saw 2 buck. harvested 0 deer.
person 3. 4 days. saw 0 doe. saw 1 buck. harvested 1 deer.
person 4. 4 days. saw 0 doe. saw 0 buck. harvested 0 deer.
person 5. 4 days. same.
person 6. 4 days. same.
person 7. 4 days. same.

the first day was spent hunting escape routes that have been used before and have been well scouted.

the rest of the season was spent hunting cover and/or still hunting when possible. The hunters ranged from 1 mile to 12 miles of ground covered per day.

The last day we spent at the cabin we decided that some things will change.

Proposed plans.

-food plots will be added
-Posted signs will surround the property
-Considering no doe harvest, until herd recovers.
-checking browse levels.(there is plenty)
-limiting amount of deer harvested from land.

I found it rather interesting a few days ago. A farmer that is a nonhunter and does not get involved with anything to do with hunting asked,"what is this I'm hearing about no deer being around?" I told him that it's not that there are no deer, just less deer. He asked how that could happen. Now he is a dairy farmer so I applied it in his field of expertise. I asked him,"If you have 40 bulls and 40 cows, how many bulls can you kill before your dairy herd will be reduced?" He replied," I could kill them all except one and it wouldn't really make any difference." I then asked him," How many cows can you kill before it affects your herd?" He replied," well, as soon as you kill one cow that will reduce your herd growth." I just smiled. He said,"So what you're saying is that more doe are being shot off?" I replied to the affirmative. He wondered why. I told him that the goal appeared to be more and larger buck. He thought about that awhile and then replied that he thought that was kinda crazy thinking because if you kill to many doe you won't have any doe to be birthing your big buck... but he's just a simple dairy farmer... has been his whole life... what does he know about animals??

My opinions on the whole mess...

AR is good.

HR is bad.

WM is good.

SGL hunting sucks.

Gary Alt either underestimated the ability of the PA hunters to reduce the herd OR he was GIVEN a mission (less deer) and it was his job to sell it...

Either way PA hunters can be a tough crowd to please

[herdhunter]

We've been discussing this over and over again. It doens't take a rocket scientist nor a dairy farmer to realize that the goal of Dr. Alt is to reduce the deer population. Also, he didn't have to "sell" anything. Most hunters were excited about the QDM because it was supposed to produce bigger bucks which it has and will, but what was in small print that most of us didn't realize is that the herd will be reduced so low that it will be extremely difficult to even see a deer, let alone kill one. When I say Dr. Alt didn't have to sell anything, that's exactly what it meant. It is not up to the hunters to decide the regualtions in Pennsylvania, don't get it wrong, when it comes to the PGC, there is no democracy.................did you get to vote ??? i surely didn't. I felt fortunate that I hunt in an area where it is three points on one side and not four. The fact is, the deer population is dwindling and we as hunters were so excited when we thought the plan was SUPPOSED to produce bigger bucks, we never thought of the consequences of the BIGGER plan.

[ulysses]

Herd: don't forget the PGC tok a poll over hunters to see if AR/HR was favorable to them and reported it was to the vast majority.
Know how many they polled outr of 1,000,000+ hunters just 750. And who is to say whom that 750 were???
I know I support AR but not HR

[herdhunter]

yeah but who knows if they really took a poll.............. i don't. If that's the case maybe in four years when the campaign for a president comes around, they should just take a poll and ask 750 people who they think should be president, and then don't identify those people. after the poll is done, they name their new president. sound like a good plan to you???

[Joe D.]

I understand where eveyone is coming from, I do agree that too many doe are shot each year, however, I have seen the deer with my own 2 eyes during the summer months as well as the fall. I'm still looking for a different explanation on why harvests this year have been so low. I didn't harvest a deer this year (yet). I'm just puzzled because I know the deer in the areas I hunt are there.

[ulysses]

well according to Dr Alt all you need to do is hunt harder and relearn how to hunt,hone up on your skills go further afield,etc.
According to common sense if you don't see sign they ain't there!

[Jason N]

well according to Dr Alt all you need to do is hunt harder and relearn how to hunt,hone up on your skills go further afield,etc.
According to common sense if you don't see sign they ain't there!

I'm not arguing this point....I'm not a fan of HR, but it is needed in some areas. The areas I've been hunting show a rather large amount of all kinds of sign....trails, tracks, rubs, scrapes, poop, etc. Yet, when I hunt these areas I see few deer. I'm not talking open hardwoods either....clearcuts, slashings, blowdowns, laurel, etc. I like to consider myself an accomplished hunter and pretty good at it, but I can't find the deer.....sign is all over though. How does one explain that? I took a friend into one of my better areas on the last day....he said to me that he can't figure out why so many are complaining about the lack of sign. He saw a spike and a flash of gray haullin' balls, but I didn't see a thing. The entire area is completely torn up with all kinds of sign. Go figure.

[ulysses]

obviously they are traveling there for some reason...feed,security cover,etc. I'd guess feed at night .
I've seen deer move into my corn fields from a couple miles away at night only to be back in the unaccessable area again by first light.
There was a pibald yearling that was known to bee seen near town nearly every morning several nights I myself saw her and the doe she was with in my soybean field about 10PM then on the way to the diner in the am I'd see them standing by the boro sewage treatment plant. The odds of two pibald yearlings being in the same area is slim the markings were exact. The distance from my soybeans to the sewage disposal plant.... 4 3/4 miles

[Jason N]

I'd guess feed at night

No doubt! This isn't a suburban area or an area that has ANY private property for these deer to go too, so I know that's not the case. We're talking about 513k acres of ANF here, not woodlots....it's just puzzling. Access is easy and abundant too....

[ulysses]

alien abductions?