Coyotes can't keep the deer population down?

[White_Farm]

Well, I've heard of people being fairly skeptical about coyotes having that much of an impact on the deer population, but I've always thought they would have more of an impact than hunters would. Onto the story... Apparently locally here in upstate, NY the DEC found a coyote den and set up a camera for a few months. Over the course of that time there were several coyote pups living in the den. Apparently during there first few months the parent(s) brought back 27 fawns to the den for them, 27!! Now if that doesn't have a fairly hefty impact on an areas deer population I don't know what does.

That doesn't hold a candle to the 6 or 7 deer that get taken each year in the 100 acres I hunt on. Looks like its time to do some house-cleaning on coyotes in the area.

Tim

[SteveBNy]

Got a link for this story? Saw a similar account on another site only it was a guys friend with the camera. Sounding alot like a "rural" legend/rumor. Would like to see the documentation.

Steve

[White_Farm]

I don't think there is any formal story on this so I don't have anything saying its not a rural legend or rumor. Just a story that was relayed to me by someone who talked to a DEC officer.

Tim

[SteveBNy]

File it with all the other "stories" - don't take this personal, but it is very easy to be skeptical.

Steve

[fastfire]

I really don't dought it.
We found a den site still active last summer it had lots of deer bones around it.
Many were fawns.
I personaly have shot 6 youts while they were chasing deer in deer season.
I have a good friend that traps them 2003 take was 15
so far in 2004 take is 30.
Sheep farmer in the area has lost a lot of lambs to youts.
Dec came in & said wild dogs so he started shooting them along with some of his friends Dec came back & tried to trap the rest on the den out.

[Champlain Islander]

They do take deer regularly. A couple of years ago while hunting VT I came across a doe skeleton in the fresh snow. There were parts of the animal scattered all over and we had 6"� of fresh snow. There was coyote scat scattered all around and judging from the tracks there were at least 6 -10 yotes of all sizes. I back tracked the carnage and came to a spot where 2 deer were eating in a grown up field bordered by goldenrod bushes. You could see the yotes set up an ambush and must have rushed the deer from different directions. One got away but all the tracks led up to the one that was killed. They literally tore a whole front shoulder off the deer and the head/neck was severed. All the yotes must have divided up the kill because it was scattered over an area that was the size of a small house. All the bones were picked clean and there wasn"™t more than a few scraps of hide left. Due to the snow fall I surmised that the kill occurred the day before.

[J-bow]

First, I've never personally seen more than two Coyotes together at once. I'm sure they do get into bigger "Packs", but I've never witnessed it. What I have seen is some pretty amazing, and BOLD behavior from some of our local does. I live in the Town of Maine,NY, with a good population of Coyotes. On more than one occasion, I've watched a single mature doe, with fawns, run off one or two Coyotes in the field. The Coyotes would cruise the field edge, just looking, and the does would agressively pursue them. They got out of the way real quick! I think if fawns are with mature does, they should be safe.
Now throw in an injured animal and it all changes. Not to say that Coyotes don't kill their share of fawns, but they're opportunists. They're going to pursue something that's sick or injured, as opposed to getting their heads literally kicked in.
Those numbers you posted just seem a bit ridiculous. At that rate, the DEC wouldn't need to issue any DMU permits any more!

[Champlain Islander]

J-Bow I know what you mean about actually seeing large packs. When I see them they are usually alone except during the winter breeding season. There are lots of them in my state and often at night you can hear them howling and banding together for a hunt. Sometimes at camp in the night we hear them carry on for minutes on end and believe me there are more than just a few. In the case that I stumbled on the evidence was pretty overwhelming. They did take the smaller of the 2 deer and the tracks indicated that they had the deer surrounded and caught her in less than 50 yards. The kill site covered more than 30 yards and the final eating spot was another 20 to 40 yards away. Another time while I was in a bow stand at the edge of a field I saw 3 coyotes come out of a swamp and 1 stayed at the edge of the field in a hedge row and the other 2 went into the swamp. About 5 minutes later out came a deer with the 2 yotes right behind her. They ran right by where the other one was hiding and they all took off across the field. I figured the deer must have gotten away because she was in good shape and easily put some distance behind her. Only problem is that the yotes can run that way forever and the deer can"™t. Nature can be really cruel.

[Jason N]

I've got a friend that hunts coyotes all winter. He regularly finds carcasses and lots of tracks. There's no way to tell what the deer died from, but judging by the number of carcasses he finds thoughout the winter it doesn't look like natural causes...unless you consider coyote kills natural. Coyotes are very efficient predators, so it wouldn't surprise me to find them bringing a bunch of fawns back to the den....easy pickin's if you ask me.

[Champlain Islander]

JN- I agree, they are efficient preditors and are part of the balance of nature. I view them as natures way to eliminate over crowding. On years where the deer population grows dramatically the following year the yotes usually have a good breeding season. When deer are scarce then the coyotes don't reproduce as well and there are less of them. Around here the coyote numbers really rise when the snowshoe rabbit hits a high cycle. I think that is their preferred meal when available.