Really?

[Vermont_hunter]

So i was just reading on the VT fish and game site, hoping to find some good news about up coming regulation changes. Yeah right, i should have never thought they would something good for our deer heard. They are now planning on adding another 4 day doe gun season in oct. And i have been told they might remove the spike horn law? thats the only good law they have going for them right now. Man at the rate they are going it will be lucky to even see a track in the woods. just venting... but its just sad
whats everybody elses thoughts?

[Champlain Islander]

I think the extra 4 day season will be a ML season before the regular deer season. The purpose will be to remove the does via permit before they are bred thus saving the habitat. The old system allowed the does to be bred and spend another 5 to 6 weeks eating and then they are removed. The feeling is why waste the food and kill deer that are pregnant. Many states have gone this way and are probably better managed than VT. The spike horn rule has been shown in other states that allowing the spikes to survive and taking the yearling 4- 6 points only diminishes the genetics. They are taking the superior yearlings and leaving the inferior ones. I don't know if this will fly but I have to say the state has been over estimating the size of the deer herd and needs to gets some management into some of these decisions. I am not sure that taking more does benefits anything when the size of the herd is smaller than they claim.

[JW]

How much does the auto insurance industry play n the role of deer management? I bet more than one knows!

Just some musings

JW

[TRACKER]

I also agree although I,m in NY State the AUTO INSURANCE companies play a BIG role in deer harvesting .
The more they have to fork out on auto / deer accidents the more they push to take out the deer herd and try to get DEC to believe there are more deer around than there actualy is...
Many if not most deer are hit during hunting season , Not only the rut but by hunters moving them around unintentionaly in and out of the woods, fields, etc..
We had a write up in our local paper last Sunday regarding the VT. spike horn change in the works...
Wish you guys luck ...

[Newtown]

We are living in the glory days of deer hunting yet these blogs are dominated by complainers. Enjoy the freedom of hunting and our great outdoors. We have incredible opportunities and live in a time when land, deer, hunting seasons and individual means (the opportunity to hunt) are at an all time high. If deer hunting is so frustrating for you and the need to see and shoot many deer or a certain type of deer is so important, you should consider a new activity.

Peace.

[Vermont_hunter]

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander

I think the extra 4 day season will be a ML season before the regular deer season. The purpose will be to remove the does via permit before they are bred thus saving the habitat. The old system allowed the does to be bred and spend another 5 to 6 weeks eating and then they are removed. The feeling is why waste the food and kill deer that are pregnant. Many states have gone this way and are probably better managed than VT. The spike horn rule has been shown in other states that allowing the spikes to survive and taking the yearling 4- 6 points only diminishes the genetics. They are taking the superior yearlings and leaving the inferior ones. I don't know if this will fly but I have to say the state has been over estimating the size of the deer herd and needs to gets some management into some of these decisions. I am not sure that taking more does benefits anything when the size of the herd is smaller than they claim.

Well that makes more since as to why to have it ealier but i agree, shooting more does is not the answer. as far as the spike rule, i know in texas they proved that deer that are spikes one year can be as big as 8pts the next the first year doesn't really tell what the deer has, i know from the trail cam pics that the bucks that are around seem much bigger now. I would think it would be better if they went to 3pts to a side, i know the first year or to might be rough but it would give the nice young bucks to put on more age. just a thought, it would probably never fly here. (its worked great in PA and a few other states though) the other reason i really like the spike horn law is that it saves those bucks that you just get a gimsp of the rack and they run off. where if you saw bone you could just shoot. Are you for or against it? i think the biggest problem is the amount of does they shoot and there over estimates on the population, like you said

Newtown, let me fill you in on whats happening here: I love to hunt, my point and i think many of the Hunters in VT will agree with me is that our fish and wildlife deparment is running our deer heard into the ground. I do not hunt in order to kill a deer, i hunt because its fun. getting a deer is an extra bonus on top of that, However when you can hunt all season without seeing a deer, trying many different areas and not finding much sign at all something is wrong. that was what happened to most of the hunters i know. i saw 3 does during the time i was able to hunt, so i was doing good.

[Champlain Islander]

I agree with you Vt hnter about a spike can catch up the next year. when the AR styrted up here a few other states had already gone that route. Some stayed with limiting the spikes and some went to less than 3 on a side. I think genetics and feed/ minerals in the soil impacts how successful any AR will be. Vermont was kind of behind most of the other states and finally started the AR with a ban on spikes. Some of the other states have done long range studies and have now decided that leaving the spikes will reduce the overall genetics over time. Vermont in typical fashon has hopped on that bandwagon only later than many of the other states. I do think that over the past 5 years since AR have been in place here the deer do have much bigger racks. it only makes sence that with all the spikes left out there that 2 1/2 yr old bucks will increase. i think we can see that based on deer sightings. There was a time when the biologists believed the spikes weren't breeding but now they know this is not true. Those 1 1/2 yr old deer will breed any chance thay can especially when there aren't many dominant bucks around. Unfortunately with the 10 dollar doe tag lottery I think the state only sees dollar signs and allows way too many. In my area they haven't achieved the lottery numbers and allow anyone to buy after the lottery is closed to fill the quota. The deer sightings are way down here and I feel they have taken way too many doe out of the herd all over the state. The dept says 150,000 deer are out there and I believe it is closer to half that.

[SteveBNy]

Insurance companies do not loose a penny in high deer crash areas - they simple set higher rates there. Auto theft insurance costs more in cities then rural areas - same thing.

[Vermont_hunter]

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander

I agree with you Vt hnter about a spike can catch up the next year. when the AR styrted up here a few other states had already gone that route. Some stayed with limiting the spikes and some went to less than 3 on a side. I think genetics and feed/ minerals in the soil impacts how successful any AR will be. Vermont was kind of behind most of the other states and finally started the AR with a ban on spikes. Some of the other states have done long range studies and have now decided that leaving the spikes will reduce the overall genetics over time. Vermont in typical fashon has hopped on that bandwagon only later than many of the other states. I do think that over the past 5 years since AR have been in place here the deer do have much bigger racks. it only makes sence that with all the spikes left out there that 2 1/2 yr old bucks will increase. i think we can see that based on deer sightings. There was a time when the biologists believed the spikes weren't breeding but now they know this is not true. Those 1 1/2 yr old deer will breed any chance thay can especially when there aren't many dominant bucks around. Unfortunately with the 10 dollar doe tag lottery I think the state only sees dollar signs and allows way too many. In my area they haven't achieved the lottery numbers and allow anyone to buy after the lottery is closed to fill the quota. The deer sightings are way down here and I feel they have taken way too many doe out of the herd all over the state. The dept says 150,000 deer are out there and I believe it is closer to half that.

I agree they just see $$$ in doe tags. and i would also agree that the deer population is about half of what they claim. it would be nice if they didn't remove the spike law just upped it to 3 per side but we will just have to see what happens, i think that if they dropped it back to one buck and removed the spike law then it would be fine because some young bucks would still be passed on. In my area too deer sitings are way down, i know most people who have doe tags, don't see the does to use them... there are alot of raods they could down that would improve things alot better then what they are doing now...

[JW]

One otherr thing that plays into this.

The more license fees a state can show they collect whether it be for a license, permit to get in a drawing (like Wisc.) any camping fee, any fee collected by your DNR ~ well then the more money your DNR program gets back from the Feds through the Pittman~Robertston Act.

JW