Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,508
Valley Forge plans deer shoot
This in the local paper tonight....
"Valley Forge Natioal Historic Park officials are planning a major sharpshooting operation to kill up to 1300 deer over the next four years.
Administrators at he national park outside Philadelphia say lethal actions are necessary because deer are devouring so many plants, shrubs, and saplings that the forest cannot regenerate.
The plan would eliminate more than 80% of the herd and maintain a much smaller pack through contraceptives.
The first shoot would take place next winter.
Animal rights activists say shooting the deer is unnecessary, unethical, and dangerous to nearby residents."
Well,, now....seems that a little HR is in order for 'Ol Valley Forge, it seems....Ain't that something.....too many deer....ate all the bushes...Hummmmm....Strange thing for something like that to happen here in Pennsylvania, eh? Ohhh.....2G...??? Huh...???
Do I detect a note of sarcasm there??
Maybe it would be nice if those of us within driving distance of VF put in a request to the PGC to have hunters go in and utilize this resource. A controlled number. Weapons to be either/or archery, muzzleloader, or shotgun.
I think I will put my thoughts in right now.
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It's really a shame to not even attempt to allow some kind of well organized hunting program. several controlled archery hunting programs in parks and suburban areas have been very successful around here in contolling the numbers while utilizing the resource wisely.
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Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,508
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
bronko.... My point is that what is possibly going to occur in VF is a mirror image of what happened in 2G. Waaay too many deer allowed to accumulate over the years, and they plain ate themselves out of house and home. The numbers now need to be severely curtailed to allow reforestation and revegetation to occur. It's 2g again, on a smaller scale.
What would be a good thing is if some sportsmen/hunter groups would be able to gladly handle the task if asked, as was previously suggested by you and BTBowhunter........
These animal rights activists don't want the deer shot,but they are also complaining about to many deer.Maybe someone should suggest to them,rounding up volunteers to slip Trojans on the male deer? Then you have the park officials wanting to hire sharpshooters.Who flips the bill,the tax payers. There has been many other urbanized area's in our country that has already proven like what BTB has already stated,a well organized bowhunt is and has been very effective. Plus cost neutral.But you still get buffoon's debating the use of birth control,sharpshooting or relocation of the deer.[/align]
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I was there last year. FACT ,there is to many deer.PLUS they are tame. You can walk right up to them. I had them touch noses with my dog while the dog was hanging out of the car window. SUPRISE,there is some massive bucks also even though there is so many doe. This wont be a shoot, more like fishing in a bowl with a net. It is the federal park systems fault it got to this point. If they would have a common sense bow hunt each year they could of prevented the problem. The slaughter shoot will be disgusting , it will be like shooting your pet at its food dish. Not to mention the cost of sharp shooters. Maybe that cost was in the stimulus package. ??? I usually go there every year to just see deer,since my area of pa. has 1 deer per square mile. Quess I will have to take a trip there this summer and take pics,Could be the last deer herds( A HERD = at least 40) I ever see again in Pa. I am for a hunt using handicapped veterans.
Valley Forge is 3600 acres. To kill 1300 deer in 4 years is 325 per year. And reduce the herd by 80%. That means they estimate 1560 deer on that 3600 acres or in 5.6 sq miles, that is 278 dpsm!!!!!!! Sorry, but considering that it isn't entirely forested anyway, I'm just not buying it. They pulled the same crap at Gettysburg, claiming such outrageous numbers that were never proven. B.S.!
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There is no hunting in federal parks,period.Writing the PGC would do no good.The only ones' that can change that is congress.Maybe the USP could file a lawsuit against them.
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,508
RE: Valley Forge plans deer shoot
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel
Valley Forge is 3600 acres. To kill 1300 deer in 4 years is 325 per year. And reduce the herd by 80%. That means they estimate 1560 deer on that 3600 acres or in 5.6 sq miles, that is 278 dpsm!!!!!!! Sorry, but considering that it isn't entirely forested anyway, I'm just not buying it. They pulled the same crap at Gettysburg, claiming such outrageous numbers that were never proven. B.S.!
Let's not lose sight of the fact that in the four year period the deer will be regenerating also. You need to take the normal reproductivity rateof the deer into consideration when crunching the numbers. !560 deer on the property now (if that's true) will be expotentially larger in four years if no reduction is done.
Killing 1300 deer does not relate to having only 260 left in four years.
First of all Doug is correct in the fact that the Game Commission has no say what happens on any Federal Ground unless they choose to allow hunting as the method of removal. Even the Allegheny National Forest could set up their own hunting seasons and bag limits if they chose to do so. Presently all Federal property, other then the parks, do allow the state wildlife seasons, bag limits and regulations be used as the method of wildlife management.
Pawildman is also correct that they take into consideration the normal fawn recruitment of the next four years in their estimate of the number of deer to removed.
As an example of how deer populations can both increase to match the food supply and then decline when they start adversely affecting that food supply I am going to post their estimated deer numbers for various years. Remember this is a deer herd that has never been hunted yet when deer numbers got too high some deer could leave and be harvested by legal or illegal hunters in areas open to hunting. Also a number of those deer each year have been killed by vehicles.
Now the historic Valley Forge deer population estimates: Valley Forge is 5.3 square miles in size.
Year"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..estimated deer population
1985."¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.165-185
1997."¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦772
2003."¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..1398
2007."¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..1023
Hopefully everyone can see a couple of things from these estimates. First we should be able to see how fast a deer population can increase when they have suitable habitat. Next everyone needs to recognize that these estimates indicate the deer herd is now in a state of decline, even without the influence of hunter harvests, due to over population. That really is a perfectly natural occurrence when populations reach the point of exceeding their habitat and food supply.
Valley Forge plans deer shoot
