logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Regional Forums > Northeast

Northeast ME, NH, VT, NY, CT, RI, MA, PA, DE, WV, MD, NJ Remember, the Regional forums are for hunting topics only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-06-2009, 02:15 PM   #1
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Default ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

Here's a link to an article that explains why ARs will eventually result in smaller racks.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/177709


Quote:
The time scale is one reason that most wildlife departments managing hunting harvests simply count the heads each year and decide how many to let hunters bag without thinking about genes. The most popular method of regulating hunting"”restricting legal game to males with a minimum antler size"”results in populations overrun with females and inferior males, which is ultimately no service to hunters. "The hunters wish for animals with large antlers and large horns, and yet their actions are making that harder to achieve," says Richard Harris, a conservation biologist in Montana. As a hunter, Harris knows that the outcome of this trend will satisfy no one, the Teddy Roosevelts of the next generation least of all.


ARs are the exact opposite of the survival of the fittest and will result in smaller rack sizes, just like they observed in Miss.
__________________
In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
bluebird2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #2
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,209
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

[&:][&:]i duno if you go by that its the world not just pa or deer so pa ar proba isnt doing all that much
bowtruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #3
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

The results from Miss. shows that the principle applies to ARs and deer, so why wouldn't it apply to ARs in PA?
__________________
In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
bluebird2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:50 PM   #4
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,209
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

so let me see if i understand you
if we kill them when there young 1.5 we are going to have larger horns but if we let them go till
there 2.5 + it will make horns smaller is that what your saying bluebird or am i misunderstanding
you
that link went on about elphants and such
bowtruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:54 PM   #5
Nontypical Buck
 
crokit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: elmira ny
Posts: 1,556
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

bluebird2=BS. No offense meant, but that falls under the category of don't believe everything you read. The only way that theory could be true is if the majority of buck allowed to reach 2.5 and older are inferior to begin with. THAT is not believable.


__________________
No matter how good you think you are, it's about being in the right place at the right time.

let the young ones walk
crokit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bowtruck

so let me see if i understand you
if we kill them when there young 1.5 we are going to have larger horns but if we let them go till
there 2.5 + it will make horns smaller is that what your saying bluebird or am i misunderstanding
you
that link went on about elphants and such
On average, 2.5 buck will always have larger racks than the average 1.5 buck. But the 2.5+ buck produced by an AR herd ,will on average be smaller than a 2.5 buck produced by a non-AR herd.

The last paragraph of the article also talked about deer and the effects of ARs.
__________________
In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
bluebird2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:35 PM   #7
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny


Quote:
ORIGINAL: crokit

bluebird2=BS.Â* No offense meant, but that falls under the category of don't believe everything you read.Â* The only way that theory could be true is if the majority of buck allowed to reachÂ* 2.5 and older are inferior to begin with.Â* THAT is not believable.

Â*
Before you tell some one they are posting BS , you should at least take the time to educate yourself on the subject. If the article was BS ,can you explain why the results of ARs in Miss. support the conclusions of the article?
Quote:
The only way that theory could be true is if the majority of buck allowed to reach 2.5 and older are inferior to begin with.
The majority of bucks saved by ARs are in fact inferior to the average buck saved in a non-AR herd. The Kroll study in Texas proved spikes were inferior for the rate of antler development.

__________________
In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
bluebird2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:49 PM   #8
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,209
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

what about the noniferior buck that have already done most of the breeding acorrding to the link
you provided
bowtruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:56 PM   #9
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,879
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

The article does not say that superior buck do most of the breeding. What it says is that the bucks saved by ARs are inferior breeders,because on average they are inferior deer, not because they don't do their fair share of the breeding.
__________________
In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
bluebird2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #10
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 3c pa
Posts: 1,209
Default RE: ARs= The Survival of the Weak and Scrawny

There's no mystery males with big horns tend to be larger and produce larger offspring. During the fall rut, or breeding season, these alpha mate more than any other males, by winning fights or thwarting other males' access to their ewe

bb what do you mean
bowtruck is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Limbs getting weak! wis_bow_huntr Bowhunting 6 10-20-2008 08:52 AM
weak spined?!?!?! Shawn Perkins Bowhunting 6 09-10-2008 06:00 AM
I am old and weak GMMAT Bowhunting 48 02-06-2008 02:05 PM
Not for the weak stomach Fieldmouse Politics 13 07-12-2007 02:11 PM

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:02 AM.