My response was to BTB, not you. I agree with you that the HR which resulted from Alt's planned HR resulted in fewer antlerless tags in 2008 in 2F. The current plan is definitely driving nonresidents to hunt in other states.
__________________ In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
Here is the list of tree species used to determine forest health.
Table 5. Canopy replacement dominants and other high canopy indicator species (McWilliams et al. 2004a). Wildlife
value for all wildlife species (Carey and Gill 1980 as in Payne and Bryant 1998) and levels of browse preference by
white-tailed deer during fall and winter (Latham et al. 2005) are provided to illustrate general characteristics of
species. Blanks indicate lack of data.
Category Tree Species Wildlife Value Browse Preference
Dominants
Eastern Hemlock Fair High
Red Maple1 Good High
Sweet (Black) Birch1 Good High
Beech Good High
Ash1 Fair High
Yellow Poplar1 Fair High
Oaks1 Excellent High
White pine1 Excellent Moderate
Sugar Maple1 Good Moderate
Hickories1 Fair Low
Black cherry1 Excellent Low
Other High Canopy
Black gum1 Fair High
Other Birches1 Good Moderate/High
Other Maples (except Norway and Striped) Good Moderate/High
Cucumber tree Moderate
Willow Fair Moderate
Other Conifers Fair to Excellent Low/Moderate
Hackberry Fair Low
Aspen Good Low
Black locust Fair Low
Sweet gum Fair Low
Honeylocust Fair (is browsed)
Black walnut Fair (is browsed)
Sycamore Fair (is browsed)
Basswood1 Fair (is browsed)
Elm Fair (is browsed)
Buckeye Unknown
Butternut
Cottonwood
Balsam poplar
Kentucky coffeetree
Catalpa
1
"“ These species are of "śmedium"ť or "śhigh"ť importance to Pennsylvania"™s wood products industry (Latham et al. 2005).
Yep those are the canopy tree species used as indicators.
You indicated it was all based on a timber product so I have to ask when was the last time you saw anyone using black gum, willow, hackberry, aspen, black locust, cottonwood, Kentucy coffee tree or catalpa for a timber product?
But, that doesn"™t mean those are the only species that become part of the total habitat evaluation.
Here are some of the things required in the Job Description for those hired to do the plot evaluations.
* Record sample point information including, but not limited to, slope, aspect, terrain position, cover type, crown closure, and percent coverage of under story species, grass, forbs, ferns, and deciduous shrubs.
* Measure and record species variables including, but not limited to, species, DBH, height to 4-inch and 8-inch top, merchantable stem, percent cull, crown class, crown condition, damage/cause of death, tree history, tree class, log grades, and total height.
* Identify and estimate percent cover of herbaceous plants (ferns, shrubs, vines, and tree regeneration) on fivemil-acre plots.
* Assist in the development and implementation of data management procedures, standards, formats, and summaries for forest/vegetative inventories as directed by the forester/crew leader.
*Maintain and update index information describing plot status and history.
*Edit and correct plot tree data.
*Update plot and tree records.
* Calculate standard summaries of plot and tree data.
Why do you suppose they listedgrass, forbs, fern, deciduous shrubs, vines, etc. in the job description and requirements if they don"™t evaluate anything but canopy and marketable trees like you say?
Certainly the tree species are of the most concern, (partly because of the forest value but also because woody browse comes from trees and that is what deer eat through the winter) but that isn"™t the only thing they index or consider in the plot evaluations.
Now we have covered the species prevalent in densely forested regions, lets discuss edge habitat, and agricultural land, and the difference in CC between forested landscape, and mixed agricultural lands. PA, after all, isn't one contiguous forest. Much of it is fragmented and mixed ag. land and very capable of supporting much higher DD than the current plan allows. Elk county for starters, as you should know that area quite well. And let's set aside the issues of regeneration, and reasons for HRfor a while, and simply discuss what you believe the CC of the habitat to be in agricultural portions of Elk county. we'll get to the rest later.
__________________
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom...The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation."
Though you say the units are all either good or fair you as mistaken. There are two units that have a POOR herd health rating in that report, you linked, plus another two classified as UNCERTAIN (do to low sample size) that have reproductive data in the poor category.
As of 2008 all but one WMU was rated at being at it's goal for herd health and both 2F and 2G were rated at their goal even though breeding rates haven't increased significantly. If the herd was above the MSY carrying capacity of the habitat when the HR plan was implemented then we should have observed a state wide significant improvement in breeding rates and productivity, and the result would not have been affected by the distribution of the does that were checked ,because the increase would have occurred across the entire state and the areas with the worst breeding rates like 2G would have increased the most. Unfortunately that didn't happen and that is why,despite your predictions , the buck harvest and total harvest have not returned to their previous levels as you claimed they would.
Now that is a very good summary of why the current plan is a total failure. None of it goals have been realized other than reduce the herd to certify the forests. I've yet to see anyone from the PGC answer these glaring inconsistencies. WCO RJ won't or can't...said to ask a biologist. What will you tell us,RSB?
__________________
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom...The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation."
All woody plant life is recorded and used in the evaluation as per the long list of indicator species. When I next get on line in my work computer I pull that list and send it over here to post.
I am still waiting for the list that includes blackberry, raspberry,hobblebush ,greenthorn grasses and forbes.
A job description just describes what duties an employee may be ask to perform. It does not mean that those employees used all those skills to evaluate every plot that is surveyed. What you should have posted is the protocol which describes the actual procedure used by those doing the survey, not their job description.
Furthermore , I ask Dr. Rosenberrry if they evaluated the survey plots for the affects of competing vegetation that may prevent regeneration and he said that was not part of the criteria for the surveys.
__________________ In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
A job description just describes what duties an employee may be ask to perform. It does not mean that those employees used all those skills to evaluate every plot that is surveyed. What you should have posted is the protocol which describes the actual procedure used by those doing the survey, not their job description.
Desperate nitpicking. Is that your best response?
__________________
Cant wait for 2012!
If guns kill people, spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!!!
No, my best response was actually posting the criteria used to determine successful regeneration and listing the species of trees included in the survey. ALL RSB could do is post a meaningless job description and claim I didn't know what I was talking about.
__________________ In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
The job description did an absolutely great job of describing what is being done.Â*What part did you have difficulty understanding?
The job description did not describe what is being done, the survey protocol describes what is being done. What part did you have difficulty understanding?
The point is I provided the description of how the surveys are conducted ,where as RSB provided the qualifications of those doing the surveys.
__________________ In Miss. ,ARs reduced the average rack size of 2.5+ buck across the entire state
The job description did an absolutely great job of describing what is being done.What part did you have difficulty understanding?
The job description did not describe what is being done, the survey protocol describes what is being done. What part did you have difficulty understanding?
The point is I provided the description of how the surveys are conducted ,where as RSB provided the qualifications of those doing the surveys.
So what fundamental difference in what was to be done do you expect to see?
You are really getting desperate with your little smoke and mirror tactics
__________________
Cant wait for 2012!
If guns kill people, spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!!!
RE: Pa Game Comm. Overhaul
